S1-05: How does coding fit in the science classroom? A conversation with Aryanna Trejo of Code.org

In this episode, Eric sits down with Aryanna Trejo, a professional learning specialist of Code.org. Aryanna shares her journey from working as an elementary teacher in New York City and Los Angeles to teaching other educators at Code.org. Eric and Aryanna chat about computer literacy within the science classroom, problem-solving skills, and ways to model productive struggle for students. Aryanna also shares ways to teach coding and computer literacy in schools, no matter the classroom’s technology level. Explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page.
Aryanna Trejo (00:00):
I would hear teachers saying things like, “Well, I just can’t do coding; this is too hard for me; the time has passed.” And I would ask them, “Would you say that to your student about math or English?” And they would always sheepishly go, “No.” And I’d say, “Well, be as kind to yourself as you would be to your student.”
Eric Cross (00:19):
Welcome to Science Connections. I’m your host, Eric Cross. My guest today is Aryanna Trejo. Aryanna is a member of the professional learning team at Code.org. Before joining Code.org, Aryanna led computer science professional development for elementary school teachers, and served as an instructional coach for new educators. She also taught fourth and fifth grade in both New York City and in Los Angeles. In this episode, we discuss Aryanna’s journey to Code.org, where she helps educators connect coding to real life, how to use a rubber duck to solve problems, and how coding and computer science principles can be taught to students in areas without access to the internet…or even a computer. I hope you enjoy my conversation with Aryanna Trejo. So I was born and raised here, and I saw that you went to UC San Diego.
Aryanna Trejo (01:11):
I did, I did. I actually just put a deposit down on an apartment in University Heights, ’cause I’m moving back.
Eric Cross (01:16):
You’re coming back?
Aryanna Trejo (01:17):
I’m coming back. Yeah.
Eric Cross (01:19):
So if you need a classroom to visit….
Aryanna Trejo (01:21):
I would love to do more classroom observations!
Eric Cross (01:24):
Are we doing this? Let’s do—we’re making this happen.
Aryanna Trejo (01:26):
We are. Yeah. So I’ll be there. I’m moving there in April. I actually grew up in Orange County too, so I’m like a very diehard SoCal person.
Eric Cross (01:35):
So I feel like I know the answer to, hopefully—Tupac or Biggie? ‘Cause you’re on the East Coast, and you’re on the West Coast.
Aryanna Trejo (01:40):
Yeah. I like Tupac, but I have more Biggie songs committed to memory. Which is not a lot. I have “Juicy” and “Hypnotized” memorized.
Eric Cross (01:53):
All right. So you’re just memorizing, and you have the Biggie songs memorized, but not the Tupac ones.
Aryanna Trejo (01:58):
No, but I do love Tupac songs. You know, it’s like, Biggie has the flow, but Tupac has the lyrics. Nobody’s—they both have something really amazing about them.
Eric Cross (02:06):
You know, I can respect that you broke it down into both of their strengths.
Aryanna Trejo (02:11):
Thanks for buttering me up before this interview. And not….
Eric Cross (02:15):
<laugh> Oh, we already started.
Aryanna Trejo (02:16):
Huh? We already started?
Eric Cross (02:17):
We’re already started. Yeah. We’re already into this.
Aryanna Trejo (02:19):
We’re into it.
Eric Cross (02:21):
You were in the classroom, fourth and fifth grade, and you were doing TFA.
Aryanna Trejo (02:26):
I did. I did Teach For America. I was 2012, New York City Corps. Right after graduation. ‘Cause I graduated UC San Diego in 2012. So graduation was on June 17th, and I touched down at JFK on June 19th.
Eric Cross (02:40):
Even though I wasn’t in TFA, I know a lot of the fellows that are in it. And there’s just some phenomenal teachers in there. How long were you doing elementary school when you were teaching?
Aryanna Trejo (02:49):
Yeah, I taught for—well, I did, three years of teaching fourth grade. Then there happened to be an instructional coach opening in my fourth year. I took that, did some instructional coaching within the same network, and then I moved back to LA and I taught fifth grade for a year.
Eric Cross (03:11):
- And what was it like now? Did you go to Code.org right after the classroom?
Aryanna Trejo (03:17):
No, I didn’t. No. I transitioned after teaching fifth grade for a year in downtown Los Angeles, in the Pico-Union neighborhood. I ended up getting this email out of the blue from someone who had actually found me through the Teach for America job site. ‘Cause I was hitting the pavement; I was really looking to transition out of the classroom. And she invited me to interview with this company called 9 Dots. And they taught computer science to kids K–6 throughout Los Angeles and Compton. And I was like, “Sure, no problem. Let’s do it.” So I interviewed, I got the job, and yeah, that’s how I transitioned to 9 Dots. And then after almost four years there, I transitioned to Code.org, with the same person. Actually, she moved over to Code.org first, and then she helped me get this job.
Eric Cross (04:07):
Oh, that’s happened a lot—like, that relationship kinda carries over.
Aryanna Trejo (04:11):
Yeah. We’re meant to be coworkers.
Eric Cross (04:13):
Yeah. Are you still? Is she still there? Are you both still together?
Aryanna Trejo (04:17):
Yeah, we’re on the same team and it’s nice. I saw her last night for Happy Hour, with another coworker who’s in LA. So we’re tight. And she’s a wonderful, wonderful mentor to me.
Eric Cross (04:28):
That’s great. Did you have computer-science background, when you were doing elementary school teaching? Did you have—
Aryanna Trejo (04:34):
No. <laugh> Not at all. When I was teaching in New York City, I had like four desktop computers in my classroom, and we rarely used them. Which was such a shame. And then when I moved to Los Angeles and taught fifth grade there, we were a one-to-one school, and the joys of that are just amazing. It was just really wonderful to, you know, get the students used to typing on the computer, using different software to submit their assignments. Getting creative—as creative as you can get—with Google Slides. You know, to show off what they know. And stuff like that. That’s all I had, though. And you know, when I transitioned to 9 Dots I was like, “Sure, why not? Let’s give a shot.” And I learned a lot. It was really interesting, yeah.
Eric Cross (05:26):
And so now at Code.org you are…well, so my journey with Code.org, I’ve been in the classroom for eight years. Still in the classroom as of…an hour ago, I was there. <Laugh> And I use Code.org, and I feel like I’ve checked it periodically, and I feel like it’s evolved over the gaps. And I’ve seen it. It’s become more robust in the things that they offer, over the years I’ve been an educator. Just to kind of…could you give a thumbnail sketch? Like, what is Code.org? Who’s it for? Who’s the target audience? What resources are there?
Aryanna Trejo (06:00):
Yeah. So it’s for everyone. It is a nonprofit that provides curriculum and training and a platform for teachers and students. We provide curriculum for K through 12. It’s completely free. And it comes with lesson plans, slideshows, all that. We focus specifically on underrepresented groups. So we have targeted measures for Black students, for Native American students, for students who identify as female. That’s a huge part of our mission. But we’re really working to expand access to computer science to as many students as we can.
Eric Cross (06:41):
One of the things I’m hearing in your story is you were teaching in Compton; you were in Bronx, New York. One of the reasons why I got into the classroom is because of educators, and the impact they made on me in exposing me to science and technologies I’d never had access to. And that intentionality, that you’re going about it…are there…not just the code, but how you bring that across to different groups…are there strategies, or are there ways to connect this idea of coding to diverse groups and diverse audiences? Or is it kind of, the curriculum applies for everyone? ‘Cause in science, when I’m teaching, I’m always trying to make what I’m doing relevant to the backgrounds of my students.
Aryanna Trejo (07:28):
Sure.
Eric Cross (07:28):
So I’m teaching biology, and I’m trying to make this kind of connection. Sometimes it’s more organic; sometimes it feels kind of forced. Because it’s just not always a nice fit. But it sounds like Code.org is really about inclusion. And in the numbers that I’ve seen for representation, in especially computer science software engineers, the groups that you’re focusing on are not necessarily represented in the professional workforce. At least disproportionately.
Aryanna Trejo (07:54):
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that’s correct.
Eric Cross (07:57):
And so how do you go about being intentional about reaching groups that we don’t see in, you know, the Silicon Valley software engineers? How do you start that? Like, at a young age, do you look for specific schools in specific areas to say, “We are going to bring this to the school. We’re going out to these populations of the cities”? Because we’re just not seeing…you know, on the map, we’re not seeing anybody really doing anything with coding here. Or we’re not seeing the numbers come out of these areas, out of these cities, of students who are going into STEM or going into computer science fields.
Aryanna Trejo (08:41):
Yeah. I don’t necessarily work on the recruitment side of it, is the issue, in my position. But I do work on the professional learning, that is brought out to teachers. And we have a huge focus on equity throughout the workshops that we create from K–12. It’s something we’re really passionate about. We definitely aim to prepare teachers to teach computer science. That’s a huge part of it. Knowing the content, but also thinking through, “What does recruitment look like at your school to make sure that the demographics of your classroom match the demographics of your entire school?” Also, thinking through, “How can we make sure that female students feel included in your classroom? How can we make sure that we are, giving students creativity to think about, or we are setting students up to be creative and think about the problems that are in their community, and how they can use computer science to solve them, or at least work towards them?”
Eric Cross (09:39):
So solving real-world problems and that inclusion aspect…are there things like…you were saying “female or students who identify as female”…are there things that teachers can do to ensure that they’re being more inclusive? Or to recruit, or encourage more female students to take part? One of the things I was thinking of, that I’ve seen, is I’ve seen coding kind of camps.
Aryanna Trejo (10:06):
Sure.
Eric Cross (10:08):
That were specifically for a female audience. And that seemed to help with recruitment. Is that something that you see on your side?
Aryanna Trejo (10:16):
That’s not something that we set up, no. But the curriculum that I work with is CS Principles. And it’s offered as an Advanced Placement course, as well as an AP class. So that’s a curriculum that’s designed for students who are in grades 10 through 12. And so at that point, we can really talk to teachers and ask them what the recruitment strategy is. But in terms of strategies that teachers can use to recruit those students…I mean, I’ve heard over and over from lots of different teachers who identify as female that they didn’t think that computer science was for them, until they saw a role model in that position. And so just being a role model for those students is really wonderful.
Eric Cross (11:00):
And I see it too, with—like, we do “Draw a Scientist” activity, which is like a popular science thing—
Aryanna Trejo (11:05):
Sure, yeah, I’m familiar.
Eric Cross (11:05):
But it’s the same thing, right? Like, it fleshes out. My students don’t draw themselves as scientists. They draw what they perceive, based on what television says. I imagine with computer science, it’s probably really similar, when you think about “What’s a software engineer look like?” Do students tend to draw themselves? Or is it even a mystery? Because I don’t even know what a software engineer looks like.
Aryanna Trejo (11:28):
Yeah, absolutely. Well, one of the things we love to do with our professional learning workshops is talk about understanding yourself, your identities, how they show up in the classroom as biases. And, you know, things like stereotype threat. We see that as really important to understand, and think through, and consider, before you step into the classroom. So that you’re not, you know, coddling certain groups of students because you don’t believe that they are able to be successful in computer science. Holding all the students to the same expectations and believing that they can succeed. And computer science, I think a lot of the times people have this conception of it being this utopian, bias-less, technocratic field. When in reality, everything has bias. And people talk about algorithmic bias and facial recognition, but also the people who created computers and computer languages have their own bias that comes through. And I think it’s really important to show students that. So that they can, one, know what they’re working with, and two, make sure that they can create products that reduce that bias.
Eric Cross (12:50):
It’s like…it’s not objective, just because we’re creating software. Like, once it gets to a point of being so sophisticated…I think, like, AI software, right? With facial recognition? And we’re seeing more and more articles come out about, you know, predicting trends based on historical data.
Aryanna Trejo (13:12):
Sure.
Eric Cross (13:13):
But then, the trends and things that they’re seeing tend to target things that have happened in the past. But it also doesn’t take into consideration a lot of other factors that can lead to certain groups or populations being identified. And I’ve seen some articles lately about how your code is really just representation of what you put into it. And like you just said, your bias—if you have that, conscious or unconscious—you’re gonna put that into your code. And the input is gonna be an impact, is gonna impact the output.
Aryanna Trejo (13:44):
Yeah, absolutely. Or even just—and I’m ashamed to say this, ’cause this is an idea that came to me just recently, through an article that I read—but computers themselves have bias. The hardware assumes that you have vision, that you can see the screen, that you are able-bodied, that you can use your hands to work the keyboard, the mouse, et cetera, and that you don’t have to use assistive technology. You know, there are small things like that, where we think that technology, like I said, is this utopian, futuristic science…but there are biases throughout.
Eric Cross (14:19):
You’re absolutely right. I’ve never even—I’ve never even considered that. Even though I do use assistive tech, and figure it out, I’ve never thought from the ground up, the process is built for an able-bodied, sighted, hearing person.
Aryanna Trejo (14:31):
Exactly.
Eric Cross (14:32):
To be able to engage with the hardware. And then these other things, these tertiary things that we kind of add on, so that you can do this, but it’s not designed from the ground up for people who are, you know, different audiences, physically. So I’m glad you brought that up, though. Now I’ve seen—and I haven’t done this—but I know Hour of Code is a big thing. And this is something that’s ongoing. Can you talk a little bit about what Hour of Code is? I know it’s, it’s a big thing for the classroom teachers.
Aryanna Trejo (15:08):
Yeah. So Hour of Code is really exciting, and it’s just blossomed from something small to something tremendous. This year is gonna be the 10th Hour of Code. So what it is, is it happens during CS Education Week in December, during Grace Hopper’s—or to honor Grace Hopper’s birthday. She was a computer scientist and Navy Admiral. And basically the aim of it is to get as many students on the computer doing an hour of code, and demystify what coding is. You know, to do seed-planting. To show teachers that this is something that you can facilitate for your students. And also to show students like, “Hey, computer science is something you can absolutely do. Not just for an hour, but more if you want.” So, yeah. Now it’s worldwide, and it’s really exciting.
Eric Cross (15:58):
That’s awesome. And I think about teachers and I still hear the apologetic—when I’m helping teachers in the classroom with education technology—the self-deprecating “I’m a dinosaur; I’m not good with tech,” which is never true. Like, they’re better than they even realize. And I feel like sometimes there’s still a stigma, too. It’s like <laugh> The Simpsons’ Comic Book Store Guy. The condescending tech support person—
Aryanna Trejo (16:27):
Sure.
Eric Cross (16:28):
—who has that tone. And so I feel like some people have been so negatively impacted by that person. So I know when I’m helping people, I actually try to go full-spectrum the other side. But I’m thinking about teachers’ barrier to entry. Sometimes code is like, “Whoa.” And I don’t teach computer science. Do you see those barriers to entry, or at least the perception of them? And then, what’s the reality for like someone listening, and going, “I’m a fourth grade teacher,” or “I’m a humanities teacher in ninth grade.” What’s the perception that you see, versus reality, with the teachers that you train? Is it much more accessible than we think? Or is there a level of sophistication that you have to have coming into it?
Aryanna Trejo (17:10):
No, not at all. I know computer science, and that says a lot! <Laugh> You know, I know my own corner of computer science. And you know, that’s me being self-deprecating, too. But I think learning computer science has helped me in so many different ways that I wasn’t expecting. I recently took the GRE in hopes of, you know, getting back into grad school. And I think just the way that computer science teaches you to search for bugs in your code, or errors, and kind of tirelessly look at a problem from multiple different angles, I was able to carry that into the math that I was doing. And I noticed just a huge difference in the way that I approached it, and the way that I was open to it. But you asked a great question, in regards to the barriers to technology. In my position at 9 Dots, I was working directly with teachers to lead professional development with them. Sometimes it would be a full day; sometimes it would be an hour after school. And the one thing that I always had in my back pocket that was really useful is that I would hear teachers saying things like, “Well, I just can’t do coding; this is too hard for me; the time has passed.” And I would ask them, “Would you say that to your student about math or English?” And they would always sheepishly go, “No.” And I’d say, “Well, be as kind to yourself as you would be to your student.” You know, it takes some patience and nobody’s gonna get it perfect 100 percent of the time. Have I banged my head against the wall trying to solve one tiny little syntax error in my code? Absolutely! But it feels absolutely phenomenal to fix that. And I was an English major in undergrad, and I had never done computer science before. So it’s something that becomes really satisfying.
Eric Cross (19:07):
Yeah, I imagine. I had someone—a trainer or a presenter—one time bring up the fact that our students rarely get to see us learn in real time.
Aryanna Trejo (19:19):
Yeah.
Eric Cross (19:19):
So we don’t get to ever really model failure. I mean, unless we’re in a classroom situation <laughs> in our failures, with classroom management. Then they see it, they see it! But they don’t get to see us model learning failure. And I don’t mean like failure—and yes, I know, “first attempt is learning,” and “no such thing as failure”—that’s not what I’m talking about. But just when we’re not successful with our code, and then we experience real-time frustration.
Aryanna Trejo (19:42):
Yep.
Eric Cross (19:42):
And they said that is actually a great learning experience for your students to watch you go through productive struggle. And that was really liberating for me. Because now I’m in the classroom, and I’m trying to go through it with my students, and the beautiful thing was, they started helping me. We were all trying to solve the problem. And then we had this authentic problem-solving experience. I think it was like a Scratch program, where we were trying to solve, trying to embed it somewhere, or something. And then, in the background of the class: “Mr. Cross! I got it! I figured it out!” And it was this really neat bonding experience. And I felt that—your ears get red, and you get hot, ’cause you’re not—
Aryanna Trejo (20:19):
Oh yeah.
Eric Cross (20:20):
You don’t know it! And you’re in front of 36 kids! And I said, “OK, I need to tell them how I feel.”
Aryanna Trejo (20:25):
Yeah.
Eric Cross (20:26):
So I said, “Now I feel really frustrated.” Like, “I want to go through this, and here’s my thoughts.” ‘Cause I knew that it would be helpful if they saw and would hear my thoughts. So I just did a quick think-aloud and I said, “In my head, <laugh> I want to just quit,” I said, “But I realize that this is the part where my learning’s happening. So I just want you all to hear what’s going on in my brain.” And now I feel like when I’m doing coding with my students, and it’s just basic coding, I feel much more comfortable, like, not knowing. But I needed someone to release me from that “I have to be the expert in everything” to do it.
Aryanna Trejo (21:06):
And teachers are used to being the experts. Right? And they should be. And coding is just such a different landscape. But I think once you kind of give over to the power of tinkering, I think it’s really gratifying. I love being able to…you can revise a sentence, and then read your paragraph back to yourself in English, and say, “OK, I get it.” But there’s something so gratifying about changing a line of code or a block and then being able to hit play and watch your program come to life, and say, “Hmm, that’s not quite what I wanted. Let’s try something different.”
Eric Cross (21:39):
I love your connection to tinkering. ‘Cause—I had never thought about it—’cause I love tinkering with my hands. But I always think about physical things. But coding is exactly that. It’s tinkering.
Aryanna Trejo (21:47):
It’s exactly that.
Eric Cross (21:47):
That’s exactly what it is.
Aryanna Trejo (21:49):
And a lot of it is, for me, especially when I’m trying something new, it’s guess-and-check. It’s like, “OK, that didn’t work. What if I add a semicolon here? Will it finally work? Or what if I add a ‘for’ loop? Will this get me what I want?” And it’s wonderful because you have that with students as well. Like, you have that record of their thinking, and you can ask them to go step-by-step and tell you, you know, “First, I added this, because I wanted the program to do this,” and so on and so forth. And so you have that record, but you can always get rid of it. Students often wanna get completely get rid of it. That’s something that I’ve noticed a lot as I’ve taught computer science. But, once you can get them to target the specific parts of the program, tinker with that, and continue, that’s a really wonderful learning space. There was also something you said about modeling failure. I love the fact that in computer science you can model failure for your students. You said to your students, “I’m getting frustrated.” I love that, because I never got that in math. Nobody ever showed me what it was like to be frustrated with graphing a parabola. Right? Like, my math teachers were always like, “Doot, doot, doot, here you go, you’re done!” <Laugh> And I would get so frustrated, because it didn’t come that easily to me. And I think there’s two parts to that. So there’s modeling the learning and the thinking and the productive struggle, but also there’s the identity of being a computer scientist and modeling what that looks like. So for me, when I get really frustrated with a program, I walk away. I take five minutes. I take a deep breath. I say, “I’m not gonna think about it in these five minutes.” And I come back to it. And I think once you start teaching computer science, you can facilitate that for students. And there’s so many different strategies that they can pick up. They can pick up rubber ducking, which is where they pick up a rubber duck or a similar object, and they talk to it as if they were a partner and talk through their code. And oftentimes, as you’re rubber ducking, you’re gonna find that error, because you’re explaining it to someone who’s a stand-in for a novice. And rubber ducking is a well-known strategy for computer scientists who make it their career. You know, there’s pair programming. Some students love pair programming; some students hate it. But the students start to build this identity about how they problem-solve. And how they approach failure. And I just love that.
Eric Cross (24:31):
I’m writing this down. Because the rubber-ducking strategy, I love. I just imagine my seventh graders, a bunch of 13-year-olds with, like, rubber on the desk. And not necessarily in coding, but I was thinking in my science class. And they’re working through a challenge, and they’re all looking at this duck, and they’re talking to it. But I just love the the idea of externalizing your thought process and talking through it yourself so that you can hopefully arrive at a conclusion. But it’s such a great practice, and this is something that’s been around for a long time, apparently. So.
Aryanna Trejo (24:59):
Yeah. Yeah. It’s a real thing. And you know, you can go low-fi. It doesn’t have to be a rubber duck. You can have students talk to their pencils or their imaginary friends. That’s not the issue; the issue is, you know, talking to somebody.
Eric Cross (25:10):
I know you support teachers. But I just wanted to…I was just curious about your typical day, what that’s like. And then what you do, how you support ’em.
Aryanna Trejo (25:15):
So, at my previous job at 9 Dots, I was in there with the teachers in the classrooms. I was coaching our internal staff who went out to co-teach with teachers. And I loved that. And I had such a great impact on a local scale. But now at Code.org, I have a much broader impact. But I don’t get to interface with—that’s such a tech-y word!—I don’t get to interact with—
Eric Cross (25:42):
You work at Code.org! You get to—
Aryanna Trejo (25:42):
I know! But I’m a teacher at heart, forever, right? That’s my identity that I forged when I was 22 years old. And a typical day looks like opening up my computer, taking a look at my calendar. I often have meetings to talk about, different things that we’re doing to support our facilitators who go out to our teachers and lead their workshops for them. I recently worked on a product that was designed for CS principles, teachers, to onboard to the course if they weren’t able to get into an in-person workshop. And it’s completely self-paced, so it gives teachers an on-ramp into the course. And now I’m working on some in-person workshop agendas. So I feel really wonderful that my work is going out to thousands of teachers. But at the same time, I really, really miss talking to teachers. Because that’s something that energizes me so much.
Eric Cross (26:46):
When should students start learning computer science? I feel like we see it in this kind of narrow lane. Like, this is computer science if you make an app. Can it be more than that? As far as like the benefit of computer science? And—I guess two-part question—when should students, one, start being exposed to it? And then two, what are some of the benefits beyond just, “I wanna just make an app”?
Aryanna Trejo (27:08):
I taught coding to kindergartners. It can start as early as you as you want it to. And it doesn’t necessarily need to be on the computer. A lot of students that I worked with didn’t have computers at home, were interacting with computers for the first time. And that’s a huge barrier, of course, to a lot of teachers. But there are so many unplugged lessons that you can do to start to start to have students think about algorithms, which is just a series of steps to complete to solve a problem. As long as a student can use a computer, I think they can do computer science. There are products out there like codeSpark, where students—and Code.org has these products too—where students are moving an avatar around a board, kind of like a quadrant to…you know, they feed the directions to a computer and then the computer enacts it for them. And with that, they can learn algorithms. You know, that is computer science. And a lot of people don’t see it that way, but it really is. And it starts to set students up for more complex thinking as they move on.
Eric Cross (28:13):
One of the biggest underserved communities, geographically, are students in rural areas.
Aryanna Trejo (28:20):
Yep.
Eric Cross (28:21):
They can be reservations; they can be places just not an urban area. Is there a way to serve our communities of students and bring these skills in an unplugged way?
Aryanna Trejo (28:32):
Yeah. Yeah. If you typed in “unplugged computer science lessons” to Google, you’ll have a ton of hits. And there are so many students out there—not just in rural areas. But there’s incarcerated students. It hurts my heart to even say those words, but in urban areas too. Like in my classroom, where I only had four desktop computers. Access is a real struggle. And there’s things, like I said, instead of moving an avatar around a grid on the computer, I used to have an actual mat that I would take out to my kindergarten classrooms, lay it out, and it would have a grid on it. And we’d have one of the students act as the avatar and the rest of the students would give them directions to get to a different point on the grid. And there, you’re building an algorithm or just a series of steps. Like I said, it’s not some fancy term to solve a problem. And there’s multiple ways to solve that problem, too. And I think investigating that can be a really good way to stretch those lessons.
Eric Cross (29:32):
It almost sounds like an oxymoron, but this low-tech computer science strategy. Develop these skills and then transfer that once you have access to the tools.
Aryanna Trejo (29:39):
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And I think it’s a good way for students who need kinesthetic means to start to understand something, or just different learning styles, to start transferring that over.
Eric Cross (29:53):
I probably have students in the classroom where those kinesthetic moving things would help be a great way—or WILL be a great way—for them to learn the principles and the fundamentals of coding. Instead of only giving the option to just do the computer, actually giving them some choice. Or giving them a way to be able to manipulate things. We’re still in the system of education that’s still very siloed. It’s been the same way for a hundred years. We got math and then we got science and we got English. I’m wondering, how can a teacher fit this into their daily lessons? And then, do you have any experiences or stories or things that you’ve seen, just really creative ways that you’ve seen teachers incorporate this? Outside the norm of, “This is a computer science class; we’re just gonna code.” But have you seen it branch out? In the trainings that you’ve done?
Aryanna Trejo (30:40):
I’ve seen examples of that. I’ve seen a teacher use Scratch to demonstrate different climates of California, and show the different climates. This past year for Hour of Code, my friend Amy—the one who helped me move to 9 Dots and at Code.org—she created this incredible tutorial called Poetry Bot. And it was a way to get students to match the mood of the poem to some of the elements that were happening in the stage. So they would have different backgrounds show up at different parts of the poem. When the words would show up, they would have different sprites show up. They would have, sometimes, sounds. Or the text would show up with different animations. So there are cross-curricular opportunities everywhere, if you can be creative enough to find them, or if you beg, borrow, steal from other educators who are doing this incredible work out there.
Eric Cross (31:36):
Yeah. I say this all the time, but I’m an educational DJ, not an MC.
Aryanna Trejo (31:44):
Oh yeah.
Eric Cross (31:45):
So MCs write their lyrics and DJs remix with things that other people have done.
Aryanna Trejo (31:48):
Absolutely.
Eric Cross (31:48):
I was like, I’m a DJ. I was like, all day. Sometimes I’ll write a lyric, once or twice, but most of the time I’m remixing things. So teachers, if you’ve been out there and you got an awesome interdisciplinary thing, or you’ve incorporated coding and it’s something that’s traditionally not seen, please send it to us. Share it with us.
Aryanna Trejo (32:03):
Yeah. And there are so many different places where you can find that. We have a forum for Code.org, but there’s also CSTA, the Computer Science Teachers Association. You can join your local chapter and get to know other computer science teachers out there.
Eric Cross (32:19):
I guess…to wrap up, I’ve been using Scratch programming, the MIT website. My students do the basic animated name, CS First, stuff. But over the years, I’ve noticed that my students are coming in with a higher level of sophistication in Scratch to where now the differentiation…some of my students are just doing very basic…and then I have other students who’ve created full-on video games with complex…like, you look at their Scratch page and it’s just an amazing amount of blocks and integrations and things that they have. Is there anything on Code.org that could be a next step? That takes them beyond, maybe like the visuals? And if so, what would be a good next step, to take students to advance them to another platform? There’s so many coding languages out there, I feel like. Or I might not even be thinking about that the right way.
Aryanna Trejo (33:20):
No, I think you are. You know, we have three different curricula out on our website right now. We have CS Fundamentals, which is probably more in line with what you’re talking about. We have a free CS Discoveries curriculum, and that is designed for, grades, I believe, 6 through 10. And that would be a really good entry point, for both teachers and for students.
Eric Cross (33:44):
There’s a lot of new stuff that I hadn’t seen yet, a few years ago.
Aryanna Trejo (33:49):
Yeah.
Eric Cross (33:49):
So I was really excited.
Aryanna Trejo (33:50):
One thing that I do know is that CS Discovery has just added an artificial intelligence slash machine-learning unit, that you can just pick up and give to your students. You don’t have to go in order with CS Discoveries, like you do with CS Principles. And I’ve gone through some of those lessons. They are really rad. And I would’ve loved to have learned that when I was in middle school or high school. So yeah, we’re constantly thinking of how we can make things one, relevant to our students, and two relevant to what’s going on in the world.
Eric Cross (34:20):
So would I be overselling it if I said, “If you go through this, you’ll be able to create an AI or a neural net to do all your homework”?
Aryanna Trejo (34:26):
You would be overselling it.
Eric Cross (34:27):
I would be? OK. So what I’ll do is, I’ll wait until the end of the school year, and then introduce it, and then by the time they’ve realized it’s not true, they’ll be eighth graders.
Aryanna Trejo (34:35):
There you go. Good old bait-and-switch.
Eric Cross (34:37):
You’re amazing. Thank you for serving teachers, and for being part of such a great organization that puts out great stuff. So much free curricula for teachers to be able to use. Especially nowadays we hunt and scour the internet for those types of things. And to be able to bring computer literacy into the classroom, and with your focus of serving communities of underrepresented groups, it feels good to know that not only is it high-quality material, but it’s also trying to raise everyone up. Because ultimately when we have more people trying to solve a common problem, we come up with better solutions. And I was talking to somebody who was a materials engineer somewhere in Europe, and he said one of the things about the U.S., As he was critiquing me on this flight, critiquing the U.S., He said, “One of the things about your country is that you have a heterogeneous group of people who, in a group, when you have multiple perspectives attacking a problem, you come up with more novel solutions.” He says, “That’s one of the great things, is that there’s not necessarily just a hive mind.” And I think that that’s one of the great things. We uplift different communities, and we uplift women, people of color, people who, have backgrounds that parents didn’t go to college but have these amazing qualities and strengths. And we put everybody focusing on the same issue. We come up with novel solutions that we wouldn’t have come up with if only select groups were trying to look at it and solve it. And so—.
Aryanna Trejo (36:22):
Yeah.
Eric Cross (36:23):
And we couldn’t do that without organizations like yours, that help empower teachers. So.
Aryanna Trejo (36:27):
Yeah! You really said it.
You’re coming to my classroom when you’re back in San Diego?
Aryanna Trejo (36:31):
Yeah! I totally will. Yeah. Let’s make it happen.
Eric Cross (36:34):
Last question. If you think back in your schooling, your own schooling, K through college, is there a person or a teacher that had a big impact on you? Or a learning experience that had an impact on you? And it could be, you know, positive or negative. But something that impacted you, even to this day, that stands out to you, that you remember?
Aryanna Trejo (36:56):
This is a big diversion from the topics that we’re talking about. But in grades 10 through 12, my drama teacher, Mr. Byler, who I still talk with, was such a huge impression on me. Really wonderful. And I couldn’t tell you the teaching moves that he did that were wonderful. I don’t know much about his management. But I can tell you that he gave me space to be confident, and grow into myself, through drama productions. They were high school productions, so they weren’t amazing. But I just really came into myself in high school, because I had the confidence to get on stage. And he was just such a wonderful mentor to all of us. So, props to Mr. Byler.
Eric Cross (37:39):
Shout out to Mr. Byler for creating space for Aryanna to fly! Thanks for making time, after your workday, to talk with us and to share Code.org with teachers.
Aryanna Trejo (37:54):
Of course. Happy to.
Eric Cross (37:59):
Thanks so much for joining me and Aryanna today. We want to hear more about you. If you have any great lessons or ways to keep student engagement high, please email us at stem@amplify.com. Make sure to click subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. And join our brand new Facebook group, Science Connections: The Community for some extra content.
Stay connected!
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Meet the guest
Aryanna is a member of the Code.org Professional Learning Team. Before joining Code.org, Aryanna led computer science professional development for K-6 teachers and served as an instructional coach for new educators. She also taught fourth and fifth grade in New York City and Los Angeles. In her spare time, Aryanna loves taking advantage of the California sunshine, creating wheel-thrown pottery, and hanging out with her dog Lola.

About Science Connections
Welcome to Science Connections! Science is changing before our eyes, now more than ever. So…how do we help kids figure that out? We will bring on educators, scientists, and more to discuss the importance of high-quality science instruction. In this episode, hear from our host Eric Cross about his work engaging students as a K-8 science teacher. Listen here!
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S4 – 03: LIVE from NCTM with Bethany and Dan

In this episode, co-hosts Bethany Lockhart Johnson and Dan Meyer are LIVE with more than one hundred Math Teacher Lounge listeners at the recent National Council of Teachers of Mathematics conference. Listen in as they answer the pressing question: Who is the best teacher in film or television?
Explore more from Math Teacher Lounge by visiting our main page.
Presenter (00:00):
Ladies and gentlemen, from Math Teacher Lounge, we have Bethany Lockhart Johnson and Dan Meyer! <cheering>
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:08):
Doesn’t go well that the door was locked. Like, I could not get in! <Laugh>
Dan Meyer (00:12):
Yeah. Gotcha. All right. We’re gonna sit a little bit. Let’s see how that works—
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:16):
Hi!
Dan Meyer (00:16):
Yeah. I think we’ll stand up? Or whaddaya think, sit…?
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:19):
Should we stand? Hi.
Dan Meyer (00:22):
Hello. Great to see you folks. Yeah, I can hear you.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:25):
Can you hear me? That’s—I know YOU can me. Can you hear me OK? OK! We’re here. Hello. Thank you for like, lining up and coming out and being here. Thank you!
Dan Meyer (00:35):
Means so much to me that you could be here for me, on my show, with Bethany Lockhart Johnson, my co-host. <Audience laughs>
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:40):
The hour has just started.
Dan Meyer (00:42):
We’re just getting going. Yeah. If you folks have heard the podcast, you don’t know how much gets cut out. And it’s like, mostly me just having, you know, anxious nerves and saying something silly and then we cut it out and we can’t do that here today. So it should be real fun for all of us, I think. Yeah.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:55):
It’s not true. It’s mostly dancing. “Bethany, can you stop talking? Bethany?” Cause it’s mostly—
Dan Meyer (00:59):
“It’s my turn. It’s my turn! Bethany <laugh>! I haven’t been heard for a while.”
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:02):
Dan. We’re at an in-person conference.
Dan Meyer (01:05):
In-person BIG conference, I would say. I’d say a big conference. Yeah.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:08):
And have you been to the Amplify booth?
Dan Meyer (01:11):
I have! Have these people? There’s a claw machine with free socks.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:16):
Yeah. You’re saving me socks, right? That’s what you’re saying. <Laugh> I mean, it’s exciting. How has your conference been so far?
Dan Meyer (01:21):
So far it’s been a blast. I feel fed. I feel like the community’s been awesome. How are you feeling about it?
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:29):
OK. Let’s talk about me for just a second.
Dan Meyer (01:31):
Yeah. Talk about you.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:31):
Last night, Dan, was the very first night that I was away from my toddler. <Audience: Aw!>
Dan Meyer (01:38):
Big commitment being here. Thank you.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:40):
I got super-emotional walking back to the hotel after dinner, and then I got in my room, <laugh> I put on pajamas, and I turned on music. I slept so good!
Dan Meyer (01:50):
Yeah. <Audience laughs> Give it up for no kids! <Audience laughs> Hey!
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:55):
I love him so much. But I slept all the way through the night. Oh, by the way, I ordered room service in the morning.
Dan Meyer (02:01):
On Amplify.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:01):
That bill’s coming. But it’s been a great conference and I’m so delighted to be here in person and to get to share energy…and hopefully that’s all we’re sharing today. Y’all got your tests, right? Yep. Sharing energy and community today. Because we know it’s been hard. Hardness. Hard.
Dan Meyer (02:25):
Yeah.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:26):
Years. Hard. And to be in person, I know conferences reinvigorate me and I go back into my educational spaces feeling revitalized with new connections and new ideas to try. So yeah, I’ve been excited to be here. And thank you all for being here.
Dan Meyer (02:40):
Yep. I don’t care if I get six different strains of Covid here. I’m just thrilled to be here. <Audience laughs> I don’t know if you’ve had the same feeling, though, Bethany, you folks…I’m a little bit confused to some degree about what we’re doing. I just wanna be really transparent. This is my sarcastic voice but I’m being sincere here. It kind of feels like we’re in a little bit of a time capsule. Like we all got in a time capsule in 2019 and, you know, you open it back up and it’s like, OK, so we’re still, you know, talking about X, Y, or Z protocol for establishing classroom routines or whatever. And I’m like, OK! Like, I loved that in 2019! But I do admit, I’m still trying to figure out a little bit like, what are we doing now? What’s our relationship to the world out there? Things are very different. I have had some great sessions that I’ve enjoyed. I’m also like, still waiting for a session to draw a little blood. Do you know what I mean? Like there’s been sessions…no? OK. You’ve been in these sessions where it’s like, “Oh, ow.” Like, and you look down and there’s and there’s blood there. It’s like, I thought I knew what we were up to. Like, I thought I knew what teaching was and how we relate to the world. I dunno, like in any Danny Martin session in 2019, “Take a Knee” was one, where I was like, “Oh, OK. Like, I’m not as hot as I think I am here. Like, I’m part of a system.” That kind of thing for me draws blood. And I haven’t been in one of those yet. Been some great sessions. I’m a little hopeful that today we draw a little blood and think about what we’re doing here, is my hope here, if that’s OK. So Bethany’s gonna moderate that impulse and she’ll be the fun one and I’ll be the blood-drawing one.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (04:05):
No, I don’t…that metaphor doesn’t speak to me personally. But what I will say is, I get what you’re saying about really wanting to be in that room where there’s like this synergy happening. No promises about that today other than—
Dan Meyer (04:18):
I promise. <Audience laughs> Go on.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (04:20):
Other than I get what you’re saying. I’ll find my own metaphor that does not involve bloodshed, but.
Dan Meyer (04:25):
Sure. There’s a lot of ways we we could go about this today. And the one that I’m excited about is, you know, we could like, you know, analyze some results from students, and talk about what went into that. Look at classroom video. Lots of possibilities. But here’s what we’re up to today. Hope you’re into it. Which is, we are here in the heart of the entertainment industry. You know, Tinseltown! Um, the Big Apple! Uh…
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (04:47):
No!
Dan Meyer (04:47):
Come on. What do you got here? Um…
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (04:51):
It was daytime at night. Like the lights were so bright.
Dan Meyer (04:54):
The City of Lights.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (04:55):
There was a movie premiere outside my hotel room, which I was not invited to, unfortunately. But so what are we doing today?
Dan Meyer (05:01):
So here’s what we’re doing. We are gonna settle, once and for all, a question you have not asked yourself yet, perhaps, but will want to know the answer to in a moment. Which is: Who is the best teacher in all of film or television? OK? We’re gonna do that. It’ll be fun. But I hope that in debating this a little bit with a special guest we’ll bring up in a moment, that we will start to uncover some truths about what makes good teaching. How that’s different from teaching as we see it in movies and tv. Why middle-class America wants teachers to look a certain way in movies and tv. What all that means. And it’ll be awesome. I think. I’m hopeful it’ll be awesome. So what we did here is we’ve invited eight people. Eight folks you people may have known. You’ve been in their sessions today, in this conference, perhaps. And asked them: Who’s your fave? Like, we might have our favorites, but we wanted to democratize it a bit. So asked some cool people who you folks like, who are very smart and thoughtful about teaching: Who’s your favorite teacher?
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (05:58):
A few of whom are in this room. Thank you for your submission.
Dan Meyer (06:00):
Thank so much. Yeah. We’ll see what happens here. <laugh>
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (06:03):
As they shrink down.
Dan Meyer (06:03):
Yeah. Might draw some blood that I don’t mean to right now. We’ll see. OK.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (06:06):
That metaphor, what IS that??
Dan Meyer (06:07):
Yeah. Yeah. I love it. I’m still going with it. <laugh> And you folks will be a huge part of this. THE part of this, really. So what will happen is I’ll share with you our first nominees. A few of us will make a case for our favorites, or least favorites, as the case may be sometimes. And then by applause, by acclamation, you folks will decide who wins and advances to the next round. Start with eight, move to four. You folks know math.You know where this goes. OK.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (06:34):
No, keep going. Keep going.
Dan Meyer (06:36):
Two, then one.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (06:36):
Yeah. Got it.
Dan Meyer (06:37):
Then a half of it. No?
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (06:38):
He had to school me on the making of brackets. But we got it. Yeah.
Dan Meyer (06:41):
How brackets work.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (06:41):
But we got it. March Madness, what?
Dan Meyer (06:44):
Yeah, in order to do this right, we had to bring up—all the folks that you’ll see are also former Math Teacher Lounge guests, or like, just fan favorites. And we’re also bringing up a former Math Teacher Lounge guest to help us decide this and debate this in a respectful manner.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (06:59):
New dad.
Dan Meyer (07:00):
New dad.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (07:01):
You see where my brain’s still at? I miss him. <Laughs>
Dan Meyer (07:03):
Friend from San Diego. Really cool teacher.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (07:06):
Incredible teacher.
Dan Meyer (07:06):
Works at Desmos and Amplify. And I just want you to welcome up your friend and mine. Chris Nho!
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (07:11):
Chris Nho!
Dan Meyer (07:13):
Come up, Chris. Let’s go, buddy. We didn’t talk about it, but did you want to do the cornball stuff too?
Chris Nho (07:22):
Wow. Would I love to do—
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (07:23):
And then the door could be locked! And then you have to wait and like, just—
Chris Nho (07:27):
Yeah, I’ll skip that part.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (07:28):
Hi. Welcome. You’re here. We’re here in person.
Chris Nho (07:30):
Very glad to be here. Thank you all for having me.
Dan Meyer (07:33):
Tell me who you are.
Chris Nho (07:34):
My name is Chris Nho. I live in San Diego. I’m a new dad. A three month old, just had. Yeah, she’s actually here at the conference with us in the hotel room. And I promise you she is not by herself. She is with…come on. I was like, “Hey, just gimme one hour. I’ll be right back. I have to do very important work.” But yeah, I think I got invited here because I have opinions and I’m willing to draw…some…blood.
Dan Meyer (08:02):
There we go! Two outta three! We’re good on the metaphor now.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (08:06):
We’re so glad you’re here. If you haven’t listened to the episode where Chris and Molly and some other public math folks share their ideas and ideas of how to take math out into the world, please listen, because we had a blast.
Dan Meyer (08:19):
Inspiring work. Really inspiring work. Very cool. Cool. OK. Right on. OK.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (08:23):
Let’s do this!
Dan Meyer (08:24):
Let’s get started here. Yeah! <Audience cheers> Yeah. And we might ask you who your favorite teacher is, who’s missing from our list of eight? We might have forgotten some people. Anyway. All right. So here’s our first two. Our first two are nominated by way of, let’s see, um, Mandy Jansen is a professor at the University of Delaware. Got some awesome talks here this week, a Shadow Con talk last night. She’ll be nominating one. And also, um, Lani Horn is a professor at Vanderbilt, also extremely cool, prolific author and speaker, just all-around great human and friend of teachers everywhere. And she’ll nominate another in this bracket, which is the Northeastern Comedy bracket, Northeastern comedy bracket.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (09:06):
It just worked out that way.
Dan Meyer (09:07):
Yeah. Here it is. Here is Tina Fey in Mean Girls.
Tina Fey in Mean Girls (09:12):
“OK. Everybody close your eyes. All right. I want you to raise your hand if you have ever had a girl say something bad about you behind your back. Open your eyes. Now close your eyes again. And this time I want you to raise your hand if you have ever said anything about a friend behind her back. Open up. It’s been some girl-on-girl crime here.”
Lani Horn (09:52):
I am nominating Sharon Norbury from Mean Girls as the best movie math teacher. She is an awesome teacher who is always there for her kids. She always sees the best in them. She shows that she can forgive even some pretty bad behavior, if she sees that kids are trying. She’s a strong feminist who makes sure that smart girls don’t dumb themselves down just to impress boys.
Tina Fey in Mean Girls (10:22):
“Katie, I know that having a boyfriend may seem like the most important thing in the world right now, but you don’t have to dumb yourself down to get guys to like you.”
Lani Horn (10:30):
She’s also super hard-working. She works three jobs. She’s always there for the kids. She plays piano in the talent show and takes them to Mathlete competitions. And she’s also socially aware. And when things go really badly among the girls, she does some pretty creative things to try to get them to be kinder to each other.
Dan Meyer (10:54):
OK. That’s one.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (10:55):
Helen Case.
Dan Meyer (10:57):
All right. Settle down. Settle down. Settle down. All right.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (10:59):
Piano too!
Dan Meyer (11:00):
Bethany’s already trying to bias people here. All right. Chill out. Hold on. So next one is Mandy Jansen with Jack Black from School of Rock. Uh-oh. Uh-oh.
Jack Black in School of Rock (11:09):
“What was your name?”
Kid in School of Rock (11:10):
“Katie.”
Jack Black in School of Rock (11:11):
“Katie. What was that thing you were playing today? The big thing.”
Kid in School of Rock (11:14):
“Cello.”
Jack Black in School of Rock (11:15):
“OK. This is a bass guitar and it’s the exact same thing, but instead of playing like this, you tip it on the side. Chellooooo! You’ve got a bass! <Laugh> Try it on.”
Mandy Jansen (11:25):
And I’m nominating for best teacher in a film Jack Black as Dewey Finn playing Mr. Ned Schneebly in the film School of Rock. So why this portrayal? First of all, playing a longterm sub. Those are so hard to find right now. <Audience laughs> Really hard. And then he teaches using class projects. That’s brilliant. Integrated learning. And then love this. He gives students roles and tasks that are differentiated and align to the specific strengths that each student has.
Kid 2 in School of Rock (12:05):
“I can also play clarinet, you know!”
Jack Black in School of Rock (12:06):
“I’ll find something for you when we get back from lunch. I’ll assign the rest of you killer positions.”
Mandy Jansen (12:13):
And the film culminates in a performance of a collaborative song that they all wrote and performed together. And the students experience that collaboration and teamwork and creating something beautiful is much more important than winning first place. And finally, one of the songs that the character sings in the film is “Math is a Wonderful Thing.” Can’t beat that.
Dan Meyer (12:40):
All right. That’s tough. That’s tough. So here’s the deal. What we have right now is just a quick minute—so Bethany, you ranked, we all ranked our own faves here outta the list of eight. And Bethany put Jack Black in School of Rock a bit higher than Tina Fey in Mean Girls.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (12:54):
Missed the piano part though.
Dan Meyer (12:55):
And Chris, vice versa here. So Bethany, would you start us off and just make a quick case here for Jack Black versus Tina Fey?
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (13:01):
OK. So here’s what I’m thinking. There’s been rumor that maybe they’re putting less than credentialed people into classrooms to fill teaching gaps. I mean, just rumor. And so here’s this guy who is a rocker. He is not a substitute. He has no teaching training. And yet he goes in there and it turns out that he has the ability to see students’ potential and to recognize their unique abilities. And like Mandy said, he really tapped into, like, he saw them and said, “No, more is possible for you than what you think is possible.” And there’s like real sub anxiety. When you walk in, you can either be like, happy there’s a sub, but I was usually really nervous. Right? And he goes in and he makes that classroom into a home.
Dan Meyer (13:53):
Wow.
Chris Nho (13:54):
Wow.
Dan Meyer (13:56):
Chris, speak on it. Tina Fey needs you. Chris.
Chris Nho (13:59):
Tina Fey. Here we go. I’m gonna argue here that—when was that movie made?
Dan Meyer (14:03):
T is for terrific. I is for Interesting.
Chris Nho (14:06):
Decades ago. And I’m gonna argue that Tina Fey was very progressive for her time. OK, let’s talk about social emotional learning. Hello. <Audience laughs> Love that. Right? Stand up if, I mean, she’s getting people to talk about their emotions. And there’s a curriculum. But let’s just pause, because that’s not what’s really happening in the classroom right now. So social emotional learning, I think she’s, she’s got that a lot. And then number two, you know, if you remember the plot of Mean Girls a little bit, she gets her name written in that Burn Book. Like she sees what they say about her. Restorative justice. Let’s go. <Audience laughs>.
Dan Meyer (14:38):
Whom amongst us. Yes.
Chris Nho (14:40):
You write Mr. Nho in the Burn Book?? Well, your grade book is gonna look like a Burn Book! OK? <Audience laughs> Tina Fey, Tina Fey, she was like, “No, you know, know what? I’m actually gonna spend more time with you. You’re gonna become a mathlete.” And Lindsay Lohan discovers—she drops the most iconic line in all of math education. “The limit does not exist.” Thank you, Tina Fey, for that. For that gift.
Dan Meyer (15:04):
Bless. Bless you. Tina Fey. Wow.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (15:05):
Oh, man. Wow.
Dan Meyer (15:09):
Let’s see what the people say here. I do wanna just add one quick thing about—it’s interesting to me how often in these movies—just kind of go in a little bit, zoom out just a minute—how often it’s a teacher who has no training as a teacher. <Bethany laughs> I am kind of curious why it is. Like, those are the movies that get hot, that get made. Again, these are all kind of a mirror of the taste of the moviegoing public. You know what I’m saying? Like, these, these are not movies—I wanna believe they are made for me and for us as teachers. But they are not. There’s not enough of us to justify, you know, Jack Black’s, you know, M&M budget or whatever he’s got going on in his trailer or whatever. That needs to be for everybody in middle-class America. So what is it about middle-class America that wants to see teaching as something that anybody can do? Just like, you know, just, just run up there in your van and make it happen.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (15:54):
Magic magically manifests.
Dan Meyer (15:56):
Yeah. Manifest. Yeah. That’s just interesting to me. I just toss that out there as some red meat. Let’s see what the people say here. All right, OK, so you’re ready. Let’s get the bracket going here. The question is Tina Fey versus Jack Black. You had a moment here. Just whisper to someone real fast who you’re going for here real quick. What are you thinking here? <Crowd murmuring> All right. Crowd’s buzzing. Crowd’s buzzing. Would you folks…? All right. Bring it back. Go ahead and make some noise for Tina Fey. <Crowd cheers> OK. OK. Make some noise for Jack Black! <Crowd cheers> Judges say Tina Fey. Tina Fey moves on. All right. All right.
Chris Nho (16:44):
Stunned. I’m stunned. I’m speechless.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (16:46):
Tina Fey moves on. Wow.
Dan Meyer (16:48):
This has exceeded my expectations in terms of having some fun, but also getting deep, getting deep and real about teaching. I’m into this right here. Yeah. What’s up?
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (16:54):
That’s the goal. That’s the goal. OK. You wanted blood? Oooh, this next matchup might just be where that blood comes forth! OK. Stretch. Warm up. Dan Meyer, who’s up next?
Dan Meyer (17:11):
We’ve got the animated/animatronic round here in the Southeast. And repping the two contestants here, who do we have? We have Allison Hintz, professor, author outta Washington, as one of the two nominators. And the other nominator is one of my heroes, though we’ll find out very wrong about this nomination, Jenna Laib, who’s in the crowd, and I’m trying not to make eye contact here. <Laugh> And here are the two nominations. A couple minutes each. And then we’ll chat about it. And one of us will probably die. But we’ll see how it goes.
Allison Hintz (17:50):
A long, long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, MTL, we began learning from the Jedi Master of Teaching. With the Socratic and experiential approach. With unparalleled mindfulness, compassion, and humility. The best teacher in TV and film, Yoda is. <Audience laughs> Yoda lives the values we share as teachers and learners. He humbly comes alongside us as we construct new knowledge.
Yoda (18:29):
“You must unlearn what you have learned.”
Allison Hintz (18:32):
Yoda allows us to struggle and sees mistakes as critical to learning.
Yoda (18:39):
“The greatest teacher, failure is.”
Allison Hintz (18:43):
Yoda values curiosity and reminds us of the beauty and joy of teachers learning from children.
Yoda (18:52):
“Truly wonderful, the mind of a child is.”
Allison Hintz (18:59):
MTL! Join the Resistance! Let the force flow through you in declaring, the best teacher in TV and film, Yoda is.
Dan Meyer (19:18):
Give it up for Allison Hintz! All right! <Audience applauds>
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (19:20):
Alison! And to have that on hand too, which Is kind of perfect.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (19:26):
Just to be clear, the helmet is not a part of a Zoom background.
Dan Meyer (19:29):
You may evaluate the quality of the nomination based on the costumes of the nominator. That is acceptable. That’s acceptable.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (19:35):
That is a REAL HELMET.
Dan Meyer (19:35):
All right. The next nominator here, this one is from Jenna Laib, math coach, all-around stellar human. Here we go. This is Ms. Frizzle.
Ms. Frizzle (19:42):
“Single file, class. Our rotten field trip has only just begun.”
Jenna Laib (19:47):
And I think that the best teacher from TV or movies is Ms .Valerie Frizzle from The Magic School Bus. First and foremost, Ms. Frizzle believes in her students. She encourages them to take an active role in their learning, and also to advocate for change in their local community. For example, there’s an episode where there is a logger who’s gonna cut down a rotting log that would benefit the local ecosystem. And the students figure out a way to convince him to leave the log so that all of the animals and the plant life can benefit. She orchestrates really challenging situations for these students, and she allows them the space to ask questions and engage in problem-solving and puzzle their way out of these really, really difficult scenarios. Ms. Frizzle has unmatched pedagogy. She’s bold, she’s innovative, and she’s a major proponent of experiential learning. So these students are heading straight into a storm to learn about weather systems. <Audience laughs> These students are heading into the human body to learn about digestion and disease. They literally get baked into a cake to learn about some chemistry and reactions.
Children in The Magic School Bus (20:54):
“What’s happening?” <Audience laughs> “Why is it suddenly getting so hot?” “Maybe it’s because the floor is on fire!” <Audience laughs>
Jenna Laib (21:02):
This pedagogy is all led by her outstanding catchphrase, which is:
Ms. Frizzle (21:06):
“Take chances; make mistakes; get messy!”
Jenna Laib (21:14):
From her pedagogy to the classroom community that she creates, Ms. Frizzle is an inspiration, and that is why I think that she is the best teacher from TV or film. <Audience applauds>
Dan Meyer (21:25):
Right on! Give it up for Jenna. Give it up for Jenna. All right. I’m gonna take first pass at this. Chris knows my argument already, so I’m gonna take this here. I see some of you are feeling how I’m feeling on this one. OK, so I don’t have tons to say in favor of Yoda. I think it was all true what Allison said. I think the costume was banging. It was awesome. So there’s all that, but I have more to say against Ms. Frizzle than for Yoda.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (21:48):
No, no, no. Wait a second!
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (21:49):
Let’s let it happen. Bethany, I’ve come prepared.
Dan Meyer (21:54):
I may have made a misstep here, I realize.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (21:56):
I’ve come prepared.
Dan Meyer (21:56):
So I think Jenna is all correct. I think those clips spoke for themselves. I think that what they add up to, to me, is not “great teacher,” but more “someone who should be locked up.” <Audience laughs> Or at the very minimum, “someone who should be kept away from children.” <Audience laughs> Do not let that woman around children. I mean, check it out. Look, I don’t wanna throw down credentials. I’ve been to grad school, though. I know how this works. When your brain is stressed, you get these—all the cortisol happens. Your working memory shrinks up. You cannot learn when you’re stressed. And those kids, like whatever lesson Ms. Frizzle is teaching by sending them into an oven, I repeat, an oven <audience laughs>, like, they’re not gonna learn anything ’cause their brains are freaking out with stress and fear. OK?
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (22:41):
“What’s happening??”
Dan Meyer (22:43):
“What’s happening? Am I on fire? Well…I’m learning lots, though! Sure is magical!” <Audience laughs> It’s like, “No. Get that woman out of a classroom.” That’s my opening and closing argument. Right? There’s all it is.
Chris Nho (23:01):
All right. All right. All right.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (23:02):
Chris knows.
Chris Nho (23:03):
I’ve got, I’ve got lots to say. First off, I think Dan was in charge of the editing of those video clips. So let’s let that be—you know, let the record stand. <Audience laughs>
Dan Meyer (23:11):
Where’s the lie though? Where’s the lie?
Chris Nho (23:14):
And, you know, second, I think, um—this is the guy up here saying, “I wanna see blood.” You know? And then he has a teacher who literally takes the students into a blood cell and, and you get a little scared! You get a little worried for the students, you know? So I just don’t get it, Dan. This or that. OK? I think Ms. Frizzle—so I actually went to a project-based learning school. I taught at a project-based learning school. And the best thing about it is like, your learning, it doesn’t just stay in this box of math lesson or writing lesson, history lesson. And I think with Ms. Frizzle, like you can’t help but learn things because you are getting baked in a cake. <Audience laughs> Yeah, it is a little scary. And I imagine there’s cortisol and things happening, but guess what? Probably the next episode, they go into their own brains and explore what’s happening. That kind of thing. You know?
Dan Meyer (24:07):
The kids that survived, just be clear. <Audience laughs>
Chris Nho (24:10):
Yeah. OK. Would I want Nora, my three-month-old, to be babysat by Ms. Frizzle? Maybe not. <Audience laughs> But what I have to say about Yoda is Yoda maybe wins the best tutor award. Give it up for Yoda’s Best Tutor Award.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (24:24):
Oh, yeah…
Chris Nho (24:25):
That ratio’s looking really nice. I could teach the heck outta Luke Skywalker. OK? But 20 little Luke Skywalkers running around. I’m not sure. OK?
Dan Meyer (24:34):
Luke did survive the training, though. <Audience laughs> So that’s awfully nice to say about it. All right, Great words from Chris here. I’m still not convinced. We’ll see how you’re convinced here. Would you whisper to someone where you’re leaning here? Frizzle or Yoda? <Audience buzzing>
Chris Nho (24:47):
I tried. I tried.
Dan Meyer (24:53):
All right. That’s enough of that. Let’s hear it folks. Give it up for Yoda. <Audience cheers> Give it up. Give it up. You. Give. It. Up.
Chris Nho (25:05):
Hey, next. Next.
Dan Meyer (25:06):
All right. All right, all right. <Mutters> Give it up for Ms. Frizzle. <Audience cheers louder> I dunno, it’s pretty close. Call a tie. Maybe Yoda? Yoda by nose? <Audience laughs> All right. All right. Let’s…let me see who’s it. Let’s get the people advancing here. I’ll keep on moving here.
Chris Nho (25:26):
As you’re doing that. Um, Dan ranked Ms. Frizzle last in his personal ranking. And I ranked Ms. Frizzle very high, so we knew this one would be spicy,
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (25:36):
<laugh> Spicy it was. Are you having a good time so far? <Audience cheers> So while we love seeing these images and we love seeing these video clips, at the core, what are these things about how teachers are portrayed? And how accurate is that to our real lives? I mean, besides the cake part, right? That my chemistry class did often feel like I was on fire. I was so stressed in it. Um, we’re ready?
Dan Meyer (26:05):
Yep. Great. We’re ready, we’re up here. So the next two nominees are coming to you folks from Tracy Zager, who is the editor of my book, forthcoming in 2027 at the earliest and 2032 at the latest. And also your very own Zak Champagne from Florida, here in the room. Hey, Zak. Zak, let’s see who the nominations are. I’m gonna skip past that, didn’t work out so well for me. Here it is. This is Marshall Kane from the TV show Community.
Michael K. Williams in Community (26:32):
“You two complete your case to the class and let them decide your grades.”
Joel McHale in Community (26:37):
“Professor, thank you.”
Michael K. Williams in Community (26:40):
“It’s not a favor, Mr. Winger. Man’s gotta have a code.”
Joel McHale in Community (26:44):
“Awesome.”
Zak Champagne (26:46):
This is a pitch for an underdog. This teacher didn’t stand on desks or encourage his students to follow their musical passions. In fact, this teacher was seen only in a few episodes of my favorite TV show of all time, Community, Community has set at Greendale Community College in Colorado. And in season three, we get to meet Dr. Marshall Kane, a biology professor whose story is an inspiration to anyone who just takes the time to look and listen. Dr. Marshall Kane slowly earned his PhD while in prison, serving a sentence of 25 to life. In his classroom, he inspires students to love biology, question why LEGO has become so complicated, and randomly pairs his students for group projects to ensure no one feels left out. His greatest performance comes when a group of students believe their yam project was intentionally sabotaged. Dr. Kane took this as an opportunity for some trans-disciplinary real-world learning. So yes, at community college, he felt that a middle-school mock trial was the best way to determine who killed the yam. So let’s all pick the underdog and vote for Dr. Marshall Kane. After all, man’s gotta have a code. <Audience goes “oh!” and applauds>
Dan Meyer (27:53):
Thank you, Zak.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (27:54):
I have a code.
Dan Meyer (27:56):
Next up is Tracy Zager, nominating an unusual nomination, not a single person, but an ensemble performance. A bunch of people from a movie called Searching for Bobby Fisher. Here we go.
Rapid-fire movie dialogue (28:11):
“What’s that?” “Schleimann attack.” “Schleimann attack? Where’d you learn that from, a book?” “No, my teacher taught me.” “Aw, your teacher. Well, forget it. Play like you used to, from the gut. Get your pawns rolling on the queen’s side.”
Tracy Zager (28:26):
Hey, Math Teacher Lounge. This is Tracy Zager. I’m excited to share my nominee for the best movie teacher. But I have to admit that when I first got the email, I thought, oh, who am I gonna nominate? Because most movies about teachers are highly problematic. They usually have like a saviorism thing, usually white saviors. And I just felt like I couldn’t suggest any of those. So rather than nominate a movie about a single teacher, I wanted to nominate a movie that taught me something about teaching. And that movie is a deep cut. It’s Searching for Bobby Fischer. It’s a movie about a chess prodigy. And what I love about it is that all of the different adults in the movie are in teacher roles in some way. And the student, Josh, the chess player, is a fully realized character, not an empty pail, who pulls from the strengths of each one of those adults while also dealing with their flaws and humanity. And there’s just beautiful synergy in the way he gets the best out of everybody, but also has to overcome some of the barriers that they put in front of him. So I feel like it’s a much more authentic and humbling, but also inspiring, movie about the power of teaching. So if you haven’t ever seen it, check it out. And I can’t wait to see who the other nominees are. Thanks so much.
Dan Meyer (29:53):
Right on. Thank you, Tracy. Wherever you are. <Applause> We’ll move a little quicker here. I’m curious, Bethany, you put Marshall Kane pretty high. I put Bobby Fischer pretty high. What do you have to say about Marshall Kane for us here?
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (30:04):
Well, I just wanna say two things. One is that, like Zak said, he has this code of conduct that he brings in. And he stays true to it no matter what happens. If you saw him in in Community, you know that he held himself up to such high esteem, but not just himself, his students as well. And he took accountability when he felt he had done wrong, even though, well, that’s controversy. But first—oh, the other thing, rest in peace, Michael K. Williams. Oh my gosh. The actor who plays Marshall K. And the thing that I wanna say most of all about it is that he brings his whole self to the classroom. He was in prison for decades. He brings his whole self and says, “This is who I was. This is who I am today. And this is how we can work together as a community.”
Dan Meyer (30:58):
That’s big. I love your comments about code of conduct too. It makes me wish that Ms. Frizzle had a code of conduct also.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (31:05):
I knew that was coming back!
Chris Nho (31:06):
Two slides ago, Dan. That was two slides ago.
Dan Meyer (31:08):
Can’t let it go. So yeah, I love what you said there. I have no strong beef here either way. Bobby Fischer’s a movie I have loved dearly and can’t be objective about it. I love that the kid in that movie, more than any other movie here, the kid teaches the adults so much through his innocence and how he challenges them and how they’re treating him. Dig all that so much. Will not, will not begrudge anyone any vote either way here. I do begrudge many of you your vote in previous rounds. <Audience laughs> So let’s just, let’s hear. We’re not gonna ask you folks at all to chitchat. We’re gonna move on this one. So would you folks make some noise here for Marshall Kane in Community? OK. OK. And would you make some noise here for Bobby Fischer, the kid in Bobby Fischer, the ensemble? <Audience cheers, applauds>
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (31:56):
Marshall Kane.
Dan Meyer (31:57):
Marshall Kane takes it. All right. Good job, Marshall Kane! All right. Zak’s feeling good. Moving on to the final four here, Zak, right on. OK. Our last—the Northwest Division here is also the large urban district division here. We have a couple different teachers in sets of large urban schools. They’re nominated, they’re advanced by a couple people here. One is past president of NCTM, Robert Berry. And another is Fawn Nguyen, Southern California phenom. Great teacher and friend of lots of us. Um, let’s see who they nominated here. First from Robert Berry, let’s see, who is it here? Janine Teagues from Abbott Elementary.
Abbott Elementary dialogue (32:37):
“Hey, you know what? I’m probably probably gonna be Kenny’s second-grade teacher. Why don’t you just let him get a head start with me today?” “That’d be great.” “Yeah? OK. Hey, Kenny, would you like to be in my group today?” “Not really.” “That’s the spirit.”
Robert Berry (32:54):
My nomination is gonna be Quinta Brunson, the Emmy Award-winning Quinta Brunson from Abbott Elementary. Janine Teagues is the character. She exemplifies care not only from an affect way, but she also exemplifies care in the things that she does for her students. While the scenes in the show are entertaining, they do represent the challenges that teachers experience when they’re trying to meet the needs of her students. So she goes, goes all out for her students and finding resources. She accesses other people to get resources for her students. But the care shows up in the way that she is mindful of their needs. And so, for me, when I think about teachers and teaching, sometimes we can talk about pedagogy, but sometimes we also can talk about those kind of intangibles that makes a teacher a great teacher. It is apparent from her students that she cares about them, she supports them, and she goes all out 100% for her students. Janine Teagues, Quinta Brunson is, I think, is my choice of the best teacher on television because of the realism and the representation that she brings to this character of what teaching is about. <Applause>
Dan Meyer (34:28):
Right on. Right on. OK. OK. Next up, we’ve got, Fawn Nguyen is nominating Erin Gruwell from Freedom Writers. Here we go.
Hilary Swank in Freedom Writers movie (34:39):
“Look, you can either sit in your seats reading those workbooks or you can play a game. Either way, you’re in here till the bell rings. OK? This is called the Line Game. I’m gonna ask you a question. If that question applies to you, you step onto the line and then step back away for the next question. Easy, right? The first question. How many of you have the new Snoop Dog album? <kids move around> OK, back away. Next question. How many of you have seen Boys in the Hood?”
Fawn Nguyen (35:26):
We all learn about Miss G and her 150 students in the movie Freedom Writers starring Hilary Swank. All great teachers share a common set of traits. They care deeply about their students, have high expectations of them, and always believing wholeheartedly that they will succeed. Great teachers go above and beyond, not because they extraordinary—as Anne Gruwell would always refer to herself as an ordinary teacher—but because extraordinary things happen to people when we believe in them, give them hope, help them write their own story with a different ending. So what stood out for me with Miss G is the scope of her reach, the ever-expanding sphere of her humanity. The red tape she had placed on the classroom floor for the line game shows just how much we all have in common despite our differences. Her students didn’t just learn from her; they learned from one another. If you’d like to be part of this expanding sphere to give voice and hope, please check out Freedom Writers Foundation dot org.
Dan Meyer (36:38):
OK. This right here is a tough one for us. Thank you, Fawn. We collectively ranked—that’s our number one seed and number eight seed, which I hasten to say does not have to do with Erin Gruwell, a person, but the portrayal and the movie. So we don’t have like a whole lot of…there’s not a lot of defense we have to offer here of our eighth seed. And I heard like a kind of a little bit of a murmur over the crowd on Erin Gruwell. So I’m more interested than having a defense back and forth. I’d be curious what you, Bethany, think about what, like, what both movies have to say about like, what teaching is, especially teaching urban schools with black and brown kids and lower-class kids, for instance. They both have, I think, very different things to say about them. Do you have thoughts about that?
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (37:19):
Well, it’s interesting because there is some overlap in the sense that the arguments that both Fawn and Robert Berry put out, they both care deeply about their students, right? We’re not gonna argue that. They care deeply. And something that I would say about Miss Teagues is there’s something about the way that she sees not only her classroom, her students, but she sees all of the students in the school as her students. And her idea of resource generation is really helping the teachers to generate resources from their community themselves, and to also realize that the students see themselves reflected in the teachers. And I think that—you know, again, this is not about the real person—but the movie portrayal, and we often see kind of this, for Freedom Writers, we often see this like, Great Last Hope whisked in and her personal sacrifices are what makes these students, these brown and black students’ transformation possible. Because of her sacrifices. Including her marriage. Including, you know, three jobs. And it’s just portrayed in a way that I think really celebrates her sacrifices rather than what the students have already brought—they already come into the room bringing so much as they are, already, without her intervention.
Dan Meyer (38:38):
I love the portrayal of the teacher as part of a community of teachers. Versus in so many of these movies, it’s the teacher as the only person who gets it, you know, oftentimes coming from outside of the world of teaching and everyone’s against them and wants ’em just to fall in line and do the thing we always do, and they’re the outlier. But in Abbott Elementary, it’s like we all rise and we fall together. And teachers are investing in each other’s success, especially with Gregory the longterm sub. We’re all rooting for his, you know, his flourishing. I love that. And yeah. That’s bigtime.
Chris Nho (39:09):
Yeah, I think one interesting thing is that Freedom Writers, when it came out, I think it was like a commercial success.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (39:17):
Oh, big time. Yeah. It was.
Chris Nho (39:18):
It probably influenced a lot of people to try teaching out. So I do wonder what it says about us, right? Like that we want teaching to fit this narrative, and we wanna be those people who could go into a classroom and <puts on “cool voice”> “Y’all listen to Snoop Dog?” and just have that question HIT. <laughter> And you know, I’ve taught in a large urban school district, and I’ve been that person and I’ve seen other people try and be that person. And I think stepping away from it a little bit, just—it’s a reflection of what people want out of teaching and what they think better education looks like.
Dan Meyer (39:57):
Yeah, yeah. This idea that, so I’m a middle-class person, let’s say, and like, there’s this idea, like, “I know what I would do if I was going into circumstances of impoverishment.” Like I have—
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (40:06):
“All they really need is…”
Dan Meyer (40:07):
…for me to give ’em some real talk and tell ’em, you know, pull their pants up or whatever, listen to Snoop Dog, that kind of thing. And that will be the key. And that’s not how it is in, you know, in Jack Black in School of Rock or Tina Fey school, which are, you know, coded as largely like upper-class or largely white schools. And in those movies, it’s interesting, like how it’s about students discovering themselves, oftentimes. And the central figures are often students. And the students need to reject an oppressive parent figure or something and find themselves. But no, in Freedom Writers, it’s like, “You need to become more like the middle-class teachers who are coming in here to give you this wisdom.” It’s just interesting. I do find it—a pet peeve of mine is when movies portray teachers as only successful if you endure, for instance, the failure of your marriage, or even in Stand and Deliver, for instance, like Jaime Escalante, they depict him having a heart attack. And, like, the job oughta be…easier. <Audience laughs>
Chris Nho (41:04):
Truth.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (41:05):
That’s the barometer for how much….
Dan Meyer (41:09):
Like, no heart attacks and no divorces related to the job, that kind of thing. I do love how in Abbott—one last thing and we’ll vote and Abbott will win <audience laughs>—is like how, like there, there is a lot of degradation in Abbott, but it’s not a divorce or a heart attack—it’s the petty indignities of asking a student, “Do you wanna hang with me?” And a student says, “Nah, not really.” And that just spoke to me like how it’s not cinematic, but teaching, successful teaching, is like a collection of developing an immunity to students saying, “You’re not hot.” <Laugh> You know? And so I love that. I do wish that there was more depiction of students in Abbott Elementary. It’s a lot of adult stuff. Whatever. Give it up for Abbott, if you would, please. Let’s just get this done here. All right. That’s plenty. That’s plenty. Not gonna ask folks about Freedom Writers. OK, let’s move on to— all right, let’s hear it for Freedom Writers! Yeah. OK, cool. We go, yep.
Chris Nho (42:05):
Plot twist!
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (42:07):
OK, let’s see our final four. Cut and paste. Real time. Real time.
Audience member (42:12):
Where’s Dolores Umbridge?
Dan Meyer (42:14):
Oh….
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (42:16):
Hey, did you hear that? He said, “Where’s Dolores Umbridge?”
Dan Meyer (42:20):
All right. OK.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (42:20):
See, we missed so many. We could…
Dan Meyer (42:21):
So coming up here, we’ve got in the Eastern Conference, Tina Fey and Ms. Frizzle. Y’all know how I feel about that one. Let’s just get this one done. OK, let’s give it up for Tina Fey. Let’s hear it. <Audience cheers> OK. All right. Yes! Let’s give it up for menace to children everywhere, the terror, the Ms. Frizzle. <Audience cheers> One more time for Tina Fey. Let’s hear it. <Audience cheers> One more time for Ms. Frizzle. Let’s hear it. <Audience cheers>
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (42:59):
Yeah. OK.
Dan Meyer (43:00):
It took ’em one round, but they made the right call in the end. <Laugh>
Chris Nho (43:04):
All it took was 10 minutes of constant Ms. Frizzle-bashing. <Laugh>
Dan Meyer (43:09):
Persevering and problem-solving, that’s my game. Yes. All right. So, do either of you want to influence the audience one way or the other?
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (43:16):
That’s not how I play, Dan.
Dan Meyer (43:18):
Oh, OK. Yeah, that’s true. That’s true. You’re good. On Abbott versus Marshall Kane, should we just let ’em have it? All right. All right. Give it up For Abbott Elementary. Not bad. And for Marshall Kane. OK. OK. I hear Zak and five other people. All right, cool. <laugh> Right on. All right. We got our, we got our finals,
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (43:45):
We did it. We made it to two. And we know: We left out a lot of people. Right? And honestly, I kind of wish we could poll like everyone. I mean, think you put it on Twitter, right? Like, who would you pick? But I would say we had a pretty solid eight there. I’m excited to see who… Look at the little crown he put, you guys. Come on.
Dan Meyer (44:05):
I worked hard for you. For you. <Laugh> Yeah. I liked that it was a good bunch that had a lot of different kinds of qualities…and lack of qualities in some cases. And it allowed us that—I shouldn’t knock her while she’s down, and she IS down, it’s true. <Laugh> And I appreciate the conversation we’ve had, what they have revealed overall about teaching and what the world wants teaching to be versus what it actually is or actually should be. I appreciate that. So let’s settle this here. Give it up, if you would, for Abbott Elementary. <Audience cheers> And give it up for Tina Fey in Mean Girls. <Audience cheers>
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (44:49):
Wow.
Dan Meyer (44:51):
That was close. I almost give that to Tina Fey.
Audience member (44:55):
Yeah, we do!
Dan Meyer (44:55):
I don’t know. That was a bracket-buster for me right there. Yeah. I lost money in the office pool off that right there. Maybe let’s just find out one more time here. One more time.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (45:03):
Last time.
Dan Meyer (45:03):
Time to summon up all your conviction on one or the other here. No half-measures right now. All right.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (45:07):
Emmy Award-winning Quinta Brunson.
Dan Meyer (45:09):
Yeah, you saw Robert Berry on that, right? He was like, “Oh, I got one more card to play. Emmy Award-winning.” That’s admissible. That’s admissible. We’ll take that. All right. So…give it up for Abbott Elementary, one last time. <Audience cheers> OK. All right. All right. And give it up for Tina Fey in Mean Girls. <Audience cheers>
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (45:30):
Drumroll, please!
Chris Nho (45:33):
Best teacher is….
Dan Meyer (45:34):
Tina Fey in Mean Girls! Yeah. Not a bad pick.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (45:39):
I love it. And I think, too, I think we’re gonna have a little bit of a more reflective lens than we thought we did when we see depictions of teachers in film and television. And, you know, hopefully we’ll see some new tropes come in, right?
Dan Meyer (45:55):
Yep. Yeah. Every dollar we spend on movies with lousy teachers is just encouraging these people to make more lousy teacher movies, you know? Awesome. Thank you for being here for a live taping—
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (46:06):
Thank you for being here.
Dan Meyer (46:06):
—of our podcast, Math Teacher Lounge, in a hot room. Appreciate that. Yeah, it’s been fun for us to have you here. Um, super-important, super-important final remark: Bethany loves Oprah and Oprah occasionally, in the show—
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (46:18):
Is she coming?! Is she here?!
Dan Meyer (46:19):
Not here! Not here! Calm down. Calm down. Um, but we do have in Oprah fashion, not something—
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (46:24):
Oh. Oh, OK. Oh, that’s, that’s OK. Sorry. I got, had really excited for a second. As if the Amplify playing cards, The Amplify t-shirts being chucked at you at high speed—I did try to get a t-shirt cannon, and that was quickly ruled out <laugh>. They didn’t know about my rocket arm, right?
Dan Meyer (46:46):
Yeah, you got a cannon. <Laugh>
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (46:47):
Yeah. Oh, that’s a compliment. Oh, is that a compliment? Thank you, Dan. Thank you. Look under your seat because we have five winners. We wanna thank you for being here in person. We wanna thank the folks who are listening. We wanna thank Amplify. Oh my God. Somebody just pulled off the chair tag. You get to take that chair home with you.
Dan Meyer (47:08):
Does anybody have a prize?
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (47:10):
OK, stand up if you…stand up if you…Yes! Stand up if you have one!
Dan Meyer (47:16):
Free set of classroom dry-erase boards, right here. Congratulations.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (47:22):
And for you who pulled off the chair tag, I don’t know. We gotta we gotta find something for you.
Dan Meyer (47:27):
Put that in your backpack.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (47:30):
Thank you again for being here. Thank you. Amplify. Thank you, Desmos. Thank you. Dan Meyer.
Dan Meyer (47:36):
Thank you folks. Chris, thank you buddy.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (47:38):
Chris! Chris Nho, everybody!
Dan Meyer (47:40):
We will be, we will be at—Bethany and I will be at the booth, if you wanna chit-chat and hang out, sign some stuff. Whatever. You wanna have Bethany sign you, she’ll do that. Um, come on down to the Amplify booth and we’ll—
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (47:50):
We’ll talk to you more about Ms. Frizzle.
Dan Meyer (47:52):
Fun and prizes. I will share with my real thoughts about Ms. Frizzle down there. I’d love to see you. Thanks for being here, folks.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson (47:57):
Thanks for listening. Bye.
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Meet the guests
Dan Meyer
Dan Meyer taught high school math to students who didn’t like high school math. He has advocated for better math instruction on CNN, Good Morning America, Everyday With Rachel Ray, and TED.com. He earned his doctorate from Stanford University in math education and is currently the Dean of Research at Desmos, where he explores the future of math, technology, and learning. Dan has worked with teachers internationally and in all 50 United States and was named one of Tech & Learning’s 30 Leaders of the Future.
Bethany Lockhart Johnson
Bethany Lockhart Johnson is an elementary school educator and author. Prior to serving as a multiple-subject teacher, she taught theater and dance and now loves incorporating movement and creative play into her classroom. Bethany is committed to helping students find joy in discovering their identities as mathematicians. In addition to her role as a full-time classroom teacher, Bethany is a Student Achievement Partners California Core Advocate and is active in national and local mathematics organizations. Bethany is a member of the Illustrative Mathematics Elementary Curriculum Steering Committee and serves as a consultant, creating materials to support families during distance learning.


About Math Teacher Lounge: The podcast
Math Teacher Lounge is a biweekly podcast created specifically for K–12 math educators. In each episode co-hosts Bethany Lockhart Johnson (@lockhartedu) and Dan Meyer (@ddmeyer) chat with guests, taking a deep dive into the math and educational topics you care about.
Join the Math Teacher Lounge Facebook group to continue the conversation, view exclusive content, interact with fellow educators, participate in giveaways, and more!
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S3-05: Thinking is power

Join us as we sit down with Melanie Trecek-King, college professor and creator of Thinking is Power, to explore how much of an asset science can truly be in developing the skills students need to navigate the real world. You’ll learn about “fooling” students and the importance of developing critical thinking, information literacy, and science literacy in the classroom. We’ll also share real strategies and lesson examples that help build these essential skills and engage students in learning.
And don’t forget to grab your Science Connections study guide to track your learning and find additional resources!
We hope you enjoy this episode and explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page!
Melanie Trecek-King (00:00):
We say knowledge is power, but it’s not enough to know things. And there’s too much to know. So being able to think and not fall for someone’s bunk is my goal for my students.
Eric Cross (00:12):
Welcome to Science Connections. I’m your host, Eric Cross. On this third season, we’ve been talking about science’s underdog status. And just this past March at the NSTA conference in Atlanta, I had the chance to speak with science educators from around the country about this very topic.
Hermia Simanu (00:28):
Right now, there’s only two teachers in our high school teaching science.
Shane Dongilli (00:32):
I have 45 minutes once a week with each class. The focus is reading and math.
Alexis Tharpe (00:38):
Oftentimes science gets put by the wayside. And you know, I love math and I love my language arts, but I also think science needs to place be placed on that high pedestal as well.
Askia Little (00:46):
In fifth grade, oh, they teach science, because that’s the only grade that it’s tested.
Eric Cross (00:50):
That was Hermia Simanu from American Samoa. Her team flew for three days to make it to the conference. You also heard from Shane Dongilli from North Carolina, Alexis Tharpe from Virginia, and Askia Little from Texas. All of these teachers were excited to be at the conference and had a lot to say about the state of science education in their local schools. Throughout this season, we’ve been trying to make the case for science, showing how science can be utilized more effectively in the classroom. We’ve explored the evidence showing that science supports literacy instruction. We’ve talked about science and the responsible use of technology like AI. My hope is that all of you listeners out there can use some of this evidence to feel empowered to make the case for science in your own communities. And on this episode, we’re going to examine how science can help develop what might be the most important skill that we try to develop in our students: Good thinking. On this episode, I’m joined by a biologist who actually advocated for eliminating the Intro to Bio course at her college. Instead, Professor Trecek-King created a new course focused on critical thinking, information literacy, and science literacy skills. In this conversation, we discuss why the science classroom is such a good environment for helping students become better thinkers. Now, I don’t think that you can make a much stronger argument for science than using it to develop the skills that Melanie describes in this conversation. So, without further ado, I’m thrilled to bring you this conversation with Melanie Trecek-King, Associate Professor of Biology at Massasoit Community College, and creator of Thinking Is Power. Here’s Melanie.
Eric Cross (02:29):
Well, Melanie, thank you for joining us on the show. It’s so good to have you.
Melanie Trecek-King (02:34):
I am so happy to be here.
Eric Cross (02:35):
Now, I went to your session at NSTA in Chicago … I think it was two years ago. A couple years ago. And I was listening to your session, and as I was listening to you, I started Reverse Engineering in my mind what you were doing with your college students. I started reverse engineering the K–8. I was like, “This is amazing.” Where has what you’ve been doing been hiding? We need this not just in the college, higher ed. We need this all the way up and down. Because I hadn’t seen it before. So I think a good place for us to start is gonna be like the story of how and why you as a biologist wound up making the case to actually eliminate the Intro to Biology course at your college. So can you start off and tell us a little bit about that story?
Melanie Trecek-King (03:20):
Sure. So I started teaching at a community college in Massachusetts. And I absolutely love teaching at a community college. And I was teaching the courses that people who don’t wanna be scientists when they grow up have to take to fulfill their science requirement. And that course was Intro Bio. And I tried every way I could figure out to make that class be useful,] relevant to students. I mean, the thing is, our world is based on science and you have to understand science to be a good consumer of information, to make good decisions. And I’m a biologist, so it pains me to say this, but you know, somewhere in the middle of teaching students about the stages of mitosis and protein synthesis, I thought, “Is this really — like, if I have one semester that’s gonna be the last chance that someone’s gonna get a science education, is this really what they need?” And I just decided, “No.” So, to my college’s credit, they were very supportive. I went to them and said, “You know, I think we should assess the non-majors courses. Like, why do we teach non-majors science?” And we all agreed, well, it was for science literacy. OK, great. Do our existing non-majors courses do that? And so we evaluated each of the courses. I made a case that Intro Bio was not doing it. And so we actually replaced it with a course that I call Science for Life. And the whole course is designed to teach science literacy, critical thinking, and information literacy skills.
Eric Cross (04:48):
And so you did this while you were looking at mitosis. And you’re looking at students who may or may not be science majors. And then kind of asking that question. I know every educator asks this, and whether or not it’s welcomed or supported is a different question: “Is what I’m teaching actually gonna be relevant and useful later on down the road for this group of students?” And you actually got to run with it and then create this course, this new course. So, what were the skills that you were hoping to achieve with the new course you developed, and and why were those skills so important?
Melanie Trecek-King (05:21):
Well, if I just go back for a second to what you said, ’cause it, really hit me: I remember the actual moment — it had been building up to that point, but the actual moment that it hit me — I was teaching students the stages of mitosis. And I was applying it to cancer, because the thought is that if we use issues that are relevant to students to teach concepts, that it will be more meaningful to them. They’ll learn it better; they’ll be able to apply it. And they just looked absolutely deflated. They didn’t wanna be there. And I had this moment where I thought, “You know, if, if these students ever have cancer somewhere in their lives, is what I taught them going to be something that they remember? Is it going to be useful to them?” And quite frankly, like, no. <Laugh> They’re not gonna remember proto-oncogenes. And quite frankly, is that really what they need to know at that moment? What they need to know is, “What does this mean? Who is a reliable source of information here? If these treatments are recommended, what is the evidence for them? What are the cost-benefit analyses? Where do I go to find reliable information?” And in that space, cancer in particular, we have this whole field of — I wanna say charlatans, ’cause they may not actually be lying, but they’re pedaling false cures, false hopes. And people need that kind of hope, and so in their time of need, they’re more likely to fall for that kind of thing. Which leads me to the skills that I teach students. I call them this tree of skills. And the order is important. I start — and there’s a lot of overlap to be fair — but critical thinking, and then information literacy, and science literacy. The idea is that students carry in their pockets access to basically all of human’s knowledge at this moment in time. And if they needed to access it, they could. The question is, do they know what they’re looking for? Are they aware of their own biases that are leading them to certain sources, or certain false hopes? Are there certain things that are making them more vulnerable to the people that might prey on them? Are they able to use that information to make good decisions? There’s a great Carl Sagan quote, and it’s something like, “If we teach people only the findings of science, no matter how useful or even inspiring they may be, without communicating the method, then how is anyone to be able to tell the difference between science and pseudoscience?” So yes, the process of science is a process of critical thinking. However, we do tend to present science most of the time. Like, here’s what science has learned. And to be fair, those things that we’ve learned from science are really useful and inspiring. But if we don’t teach the process, so you’ve got somebody now who let’s say has been diagnosed with cancer and is on their phone and they’re scrolling through social media and everything looks the same. And of course the algorithms learn who you are. Next thing you know, there’s all of these like pseudo-treatments popping up. It all looks the same. Somebody who says that acupuncture can be used to cure cancer can feel the same, from someone who doesn’t understand the process of science, as a medical fact. And so the process is the process of critical thinking. My class everything is open note. The quizzes are open note. The exams — and I say open note, they’re also open online, because I know for the rest of their life they’re gonna have resources available to them; I want them to be good consumers with that information, which to me requires metacognition and critical thinking and information literacy and all those skills that I’m trying to teach them.
Eric Cross (08:58):
You’re basically taking what … we’ve taught science for so long. And more recently, it’s changed to more focusing on skills. At least in K through 12. But a lot of it was just memorization of a ton of different things that now we can pull up our phone, go on the internet. You can pull up a lot of those facts. But those facts don’t necessarily translate to actual real-world skills. When I listen to… I kind of make this analogy sometimes: students say … it’s funny, I have 12-year-olds that say this. They go, “How come they don’t teach us how to do our taxes?” And you know they’re regurgitating what they hear from adults, right? “Teach us real-world skills!” And I was like, really, if we taught you right now how to do your taxes, how many of you would really be like, “Oh, this is an awesome lesson! We’re really engaged!” But their point is that “I wanna learn something that I could actually use later on, that’s that I’m gonna carry on.” And in your course, you’re talking about these skills that actually can apply. Like you said, if I had cancer and I’m looking at different types of medical procedures, do I have the skills to really be able to evaluate and make informed decisions on that? And that’s, that’s not something that I’ve seen explicitly taught really anywhere. And I hadn’t heard anybody talk about it, really, until I heard your session, where you’ve kind of unpacked this, and over the last couple of years, have created some programs or resources for educators, where they can take this into their classroom. So what were some of those skills, again? What were were some of the skills that you thought, “I wanna make sure that my students can walk out and they know how to do this and apply it to maybe several different fields”?
Melanie Trecek-King (10:35):
Oh, that’s a really good question. Because the whole thing was a process for me. Like, when I finally let go of Intro Bio, I was so glad to see that class go, by the way. ‘Cause I just felt like I was beating a dead horse. So when I let go of it, I thought, “What do they need instead?” And for me, what I realized was I was trying to make the class I would’ve wanted to take. I realized the things that I personally didn’t know, that my own education maybe let me down a bit. But things that I thought were important. So then I took all of those, synthesized them, tried to figure out the best order. The class is currently in its third iteration. And I hope every iteration is an improvement. But I’m thinking about the students that I taught before the pandemic. It was Intro Bio. Up to just maybe the couple years before the pandemic, and during the pandemic, we had a new virus and we had a new vaccine and we had new treatments. There was hydroxychloroquine and there was ivermectin and then there’s masks. Are masks effective? Well, you know, in what circumstances? What kind of mask? There are all of these questions. And that whole thing was we saw science playing out in real time.
Eric Cross (11:50):
Absolutely.
Melanie Trecek-King (11:51):
And so were my students able to follow that? And then what happened in that process is that science became politicized. And in a time where things are uncertain and we need answers, ’cause it’s scary, people want certainty and science doesn’t tend to provide that. Especially when it’s just starting out. And then when it becomes politicized, people decide that they’re going to — it’s not necessarily a conscious decision — but they retreat into what people in their camps are saying or their groups are saying. Which actually leads me to one of the more important parts of information literacy skills in there, which is most of our knowledge is shared. We tend to have overinflated senses of what we individually know. And studies actually show that with Google, if you have access to Google, you think you’re smarter than if you don’t have access to Google. But we all have access to knowledge in our communities, and that’s one of the reasons humans are so successful, is that we can each specialize in different things and share our expertise and become greater than the sum of our parts. The problem with that, of course, is that we forget what we don’t know, and we assume that we know what the community knows. And so recognizing the limits of your own knowledge and how different communities produce knowledge, like the different epistemic processes that communities use to come to knowledge. When it comes down to it, an important part of knowing is knowing who to trust, right? Knowing where the source of knowledge lives. And in order to do that, you have to understand the processes that they’re using to come to that knowledge and the limits of your own knowledge. And then how to find who has that knowledge so that you can use that to make better decisions.
Eric Cross (13:38):
So, when I hear what you’re doing with your college students, and I think about what I’m doing in the classroom, in the middle school, we are really focusing on literacy as skills. Reading, writing, speaking, listening. And then when I think of the next step of the journey, your information literacy and the literacy you’re teaching is really the application of those things in the real world. And the examples that you gave are very critical examples. Evaluating claims about Covid. Making informed decisions about a medical procedure that you might need. And we all get that applied to us. We’re scrolling through social media and somehow social media is listening. It’s figuring out exactly what I’m doing, because all of a sudden the ads are telling me … how did you know I was alking about KitchenAid mixers now? I just said KitchenAid mixers and it’s gonna show up in my feed! But <laugh> I take that in the same way from the same place that I take in maybe an oncologist. So it’s it’s coming through the same channels. So now I kind of wanna pivot. So we’ve talked about what you’re doing, why you’re doing it, the connection between “am I really teaching the skills that my students need in the science class? Is it really critical thinking explicitly or is it just kind of implied?” Now I wanna ask you how you do it. What’s the annotated, abbreviated kind of syllabus of your course?
Melanie Trecek-King (15:03):
So the course is called Science for Life. And the premise behind it is the kinds of skills and understanding of the process of science that they would need to make good decisions to be empowered in a world based on science. And so the very first lecture, I say, “OK, I’m gonna tell you a story and I just want you to listen to the story. And at the end I’m gonna ask you why I told the story.” And the story that I tell them is some of the history of the witchcraft trials in Europe. And I start with the Malleus Maleficarum, or the Hammer of Witches, from the Pope, and about how people would accuse witches of causing birth defects or storms or crops dying. And, the best evidence that they had to absolutely know somebody was a witch was if somebody accused them, and then if they were accused, if they confessed. OK? But the problem is, to get them to confess, they would torture them. Roasting over coals, or splitting until somebody broke. And so I tell my students, “OK, this was absolute proof that someone was guilty of witchcraft. I don’t know about you; I would confess to anything, right? Make it stop!” So this is where I get to ask students, “Why would I ask you this? Why would I tell you this story? And traumatize you on the very first day of lecture?” And they see the reasoning, right? They thought they had evidence. The question was, is that good evidence? And so, you know, I’m getting students to have a basic understanding of epistemology, right? Without calling it that, or without going into all of the philosophical background of epistemology. Apply this to your own reasoning. What are you wrong about? Well, you probably wouldn’t know. OK, how would you know if you were wrong? Like what kinds of things do you feel that you’re so right about? How good is your evidence for that? So what I want them to do is internalize the thinking about thinking, and analyzing how they come to conclusions, and proportioning how strongly they believe. Their confidence in how right they are. So I think starting with that kind of misinformation, and getting students to internalize that process is important. But I think the example is really useful, because most of my students don’t believe in witchcraft. Right? So it’s not an issue that would immediately threaten them in some way. So when, when a belief is tied to identity or how we see ourselves or is really important to us, then it’s very difficult to be objective about that belief. And so by starting with witchcraft, it’s not triggering. I get them to think about thinking and practice that muscle so that when we get to those more important issues, they have the skills they need to evaluate them.
Eric Cross (17:55):
So would it be fair to say that your Science for Life class is really applied scientific thinking for the real world?
Melanie Trecek-King (18:01):
Absolutely. That’s the idea. I mean, science is too good to keep to ourselves, right? And it’s everywhere. So how can you understand the world through a scientific lens?
Eric Cross (18:10):
What are the nuts and bolts of how you teach your students these strategies? What do you do? What are some strategies and techniques that we can maybe share with listeners? And then where I want to go after that is I wanna ask you, how early do you think this can be started? So lemme start off first with, what do you do?
Melanie Trecek-King (18:28):
So I use three different strategies. One is, I provide students with a toolkit. And the toolkit is one that I created and it is like my one toolkit to rule them all. It is trying to apply critical thinking and science reasoning all together in one place. So that if students are met with a claim, they’ve got the toolkit with an acronym. They can now start and have somewhere to go. In that if I gave you a claim and said, “Just critically think through this claim,” I mean, that’s a mighty task. But if you have a structured toolkit, then it’s hopefully a systemic way that’s helpful. The toolkit is summarized by FLOATER. I have published it on Skeptical Inquirer. It’s free. So it’s Falsifiability, Logical, Objectivity, Alternative Explanations, Tentative Conclusions, Evidence, and Reproducibility. So I provide students with a toolkit. The next thing I do is I use a lot of misinformation in class. Back to what Carl Sagan says: What I heard was we should use pseudoscience to teach students the difference between a pseudo-scientific process and a scientific process. So, I use science denial, conspiracy theories, and give my students a lot of opportunities to practice evaluating claims with the toolkit. And the other thing I do is, I use inoculation activities. So inoculation theory is based on William McGuire’s original research in the ’60s, which is basically like a vaccine analogy. Where you can inject a small amount of a virus or bacterium into the body, so that it creates an immune response, so that it can learn the real thing. And so in the real world, it can fight it off. Inoculation theory does the same thing, but with misinformation. So, what we can do is, in controlled environments, expose students to little bits of misinformation so that they can recognize it in the real world. There’s different kinds of inoculation, but I’m a big fan of what’s called active and technique-based inoculation. So technique-based means that students are learning not the facts of misinformation, not factually why this thing is wrong, but about the technique used to deceive. So maybe the use of fake experts. Or maybe the use of anecdotes. Or the use of logical fallacies. The other part of that is active, which is where students create the misinformation. So for example, my students, just now, we finished covering pseudoscience. And I teach students the characteristics of pseudoscience. And basically we have fun with it. Where they pretend to be grifters and they sell a pseudoscience product. And so they have to make an ad like they’d see on social media, using the different techniques. And the point there is that it’s supposed to be funny, right? And lighthearted. But in a real way, by using the techniques used to sell something like pseudoscience, it’s opening their eyes. You can’t unsee how every alternative product has, “it’s an all-natural and used for centuries and millions use it and look at this person who says, ‘Wow, it worked for me!’ And it’s certified by some society that doesn’t exist, but this doctor behind it says that it’s really great!” I mean, it’s all the same stuff. So they create the misinformation using their own techniques.
Eric Cross (22:02):
That’s one of my favorite things that you’ve talked about, and I want to dive in that a little bit more. But when you’re teaching the toolkit, FLOATER, what does that look like in the classroom, when you’re actually breaking all of those things down? What does it look like as you’re walking your students through this, and you’re kind of coaching them on all of those different things? ‘Cause I feel like some things might be like, “Oh yeah, I got that.” And then some of them might be, “Oh, what is that?”
Melanie Trecek-King (22:24):
Yeah, it takes me probably a good solid lecture to get through the basis of the toolkit. But then over the rest of the semester, I’ll spend more time going into different parts, different rules, a bit more in-depth. So, for example, logical fallacies and objectivity. So the rule of objectivity basically states that you need to be honest with yourself. I’m gonna quote Feynman here, so: “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself — and you are the easiest person to fool.” We don’t tend to think that we can be fooled. But of course we can. So actually, if you wanna talk about it, I start class by fooling my students.
Eric Cross (23:03):
Wait, what do you do? What do you do for that?
Melanie Trecek-King (23:05):
Oh, so this is really fun. Day 1 of class, after the syllabus, I tell my … so you’re in my class now, Eric. “So I have a friend, and she’s a psychic. She’s an astrologer and she’s pretty good at what she does. I mean, she’s got books and she’s been on TV and stuff. She knows I teach this course about skepticism. And so she’s agreed to test how effective she is by providing personality assessments to students in class. So if you wanna participate, what I need from you is your birthday, your full name, answer a few questions. Like, if your house was on fire and you could take one thing, what would it be? Or if you could get paid for anything to do anything for a living, what would it be? Um, there’s a third one. Oh! If you could have any superpower, what would it be?” So the next class, it’s usually over a weekend. The next class I say, “OK, I’ve got your personality assessments back, but remember, we wanna test how effective she is. So in order to do that, I need you to read your profile as quietly as possible. And then I’m gonna have you rate her accuracy on a scale of 1 to 5. OK? So close your eyes; rate her.” Over the years doing this, it’s about a 4.3 to 4.5 out of 5. They think she’s pretty accurate. OK? “So now, if you feel comfortable, get with a person next to you. And I want you to talk about what parts of the personality assessment really spoke to you and, and why, and why you thought she was accurate or not.” And it takes them 5, 10 minutes before they realize they all got the same one. So, this is not my original experiment. It was first done by Bertram Forer in … I think it was the ’50s. And it’s done in psychology classrooms. James Randi made it famous. But the personality assessment itself is full of what are called Barnum statements. So, named after P.T. Barnum. These are statements that are very generic. So, “You have a need to be liked and admired by people. You are often quiet and reserved, but there are times where you can be the life of the party.”
Eric Cross (25:13):
How do you know this about me, by the way? This is a — I feel like you know me right now.
Melanie Trecek-King (25:17):
“There are times where you’ve wondered whether you’ve done the right thing.”
Eric Cross (25:19):
This is getting weird.
Melanie Trecek-King (25:21):
I’m just on fire, right? So these are Barnum statements. They’re the basis of personality assessment.
Eric Cross (25:29):
Mel, can I pause you right there? You said Barnum. Is that the same Barnum, like Barnum & Bailey Circus?
Melanie Trecek-King (25:34):
Yeah. P.T. Barnum, who didn’t actually say “There’s a sucker born every minute,” but we attribute him with that kind of ethos. These statements though, if you read a horoscope or even like personality indicators, like the MBTI, it is basically pseudo-scientific. And it ends up with lots of these Barnum statements. They produce what’s called the Barnum Effect, which is, “Wow, that’s so me! How did you know me?” I could even do more. Like, you have a box of photos in your house that need to be sorted. Or unused prescriptions. And these can apply to nearly everyone, but they produce this effect where we go, “Wow, that is so me!” Right? So by fooling them this way, I get to … well, so the next thing is, “Yes, I lied to you. And I’d like to tell you I won’t do that again. But I’m not going to, ’cause I might. So be on your guard.” But I did it for free. And why did I do it? “I did it because I could tell you ‘I could fool you,’ but you wouldn’t necessarily believe me. So I fooled you, so that you would learn what it feels like to be fooled.” It’s not fun. But we’re gonna make a joke outta this. And students are almost never upset about this ’cause it’s a fun process and they’re all fooled. And again, the point is, I didn’t disprove psychic powers. I didn’t just disprove psychics with this exercise. But I did show you how easy it was to fake. So if somebody is gonna tell you that they can know these things about you through some way, hopefully the evidence they provide should be stronger than something that’s easily faked. Right? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If you claim to be able to read my personality based on my birthdate, then I need more than something that you can be taught to do in 15 minutes. So, I fool them to convince them that they could be fooled.
Eric Cross (27:27):
You’re giving them a practice scenario for thinking. And I was thinking about basketball. I grew up playing basketball. And my coach would have our own team be the defenders of the next team we were gonna play, so that we can be prepared for the defense. We were gonna see. Now, when I’m thinking about education, and what you just said reminded me of this, it’s like we’re often just teaching offense. We’re always teaching the plays. We’re always teaching what to do. But we rarely teach defense. What happens when someone comes towards you and, and they challenge you or they come at you with claims? How do we evaluate this? And I think in pockets we do it. We do claim-evidence-reasoning. We present claims and evidence and reasoning. But we don’t always have practice defending them. And I think there’s great resources. There’s Argumentation Toolkit and there’s all these awesome resources that do this. But does that fit? You’re kind of having them practice defense?
Melanie Trecek-King (28:26):
Yeah. You know, that’s brilliant. I never considered that analogy. But, yeah, in the real world, you don’t just get to always try to score all the time. Someone’s gonna challenge you and give you a claim that maybe you haven’t heard before. So how do you think through it?
Eric Cross (28:41):
Yeah. And you become better. So now I’m thinking about how early could we start doing this? For one, I love the idea of lying to your students, because I do that. And it’s just such a fun scenario. How early could we start implementing these strategies or these ideas or these toolkits? In your mind, what do you imagine? How early could we start this with young people?
Melanie Trecek-King (29:07):
Yeah. I’m so glad you asked that question, ’cause honestly, by the time they get to me, it’s almost too late. And I don’t wanna say it’s too late, ’cause it’s never too late. But, oh, we need to start so much earlier! That example that I gave about the selling pseudoscience argument? I have a wonderful colleague, Bertha Vasquez, who’s a middle school teacher in Miami and the director of TIES at CFI. She did this with her middle school students. And quite frankly, their examples were just as good, or in some cases better, than my college students. And they had so much fun with it, too. And she just said that, you know, <laugh>, they actually are more savvy with the kinds of things that they see online than we — I don’t wanna say give them credit for. But almost that we want to believe. My students give me examples of things that are from corners of the internet that I didn’t know existed. And quite frankly, that’s probably a good thing for my own mental health. But students are on there too, like middle school students, and we need to prepare them for the kinds of things that they see in the wild.
Eric Cross (30:13):
So in middle school, definitely. Now, you’ve also done some work in high school as well, right? In Oklahoma? Did you do some. …?
Melanie Trecek-King (30:17):
Yeah.
Eric Cross (30:18):
…some work with high schoolers? What was that like? Did you see any impact there?
Melanie Trecek-King (30:21):
So I didn’t actually do it in Oklahoma. I have taught the course … actually, you were talking about younger kids. I’ve taught the course to high schoolers in my area that are parts of dual enrollment. And they absolutely ate up the curriculum. And they were wonderful, wonderful students. And it was completely appropriate for … they were juniors, actually. But the course has also been taught in Oklahoma, through a dual enrollment program as well. And it was a small sample size. But we have pre-post testing that showed that it improved their critical thinking, their acceptance of science. But anecdotally the head of the program there said that in his years doing this, he’d never seen a course that helped them improve in their other courses so well. So, I felt very rewarded by hearing this. But apparently their critical thinking skills and information literacy skills helped them succeed in their other courses that they were taking. And I love that the students were transferring those skills to other classes. That’s the whole point.
Eric Cross (31:23):
And that’s a big … I think that what you just said is really the core, especially of what we’ve been talking about this season: What you’re talking about and what you’re teaching can transfer and supports literacy. And this is an example of science doing that across all other content areas. So I think that that’s huge, that that was said. What do people say about this course? I know I went on your website, and I looked at some of the comments that some folks were saying, and I know it’s just a snippet, but what do you hear from the education world about this? Because I don’t see it in many places. I see it kind of embedded, sprinkled into different content areas. But you’re actually teaching it explicitly. Do you tend to find positive feedback, overwhelmingly? Or do you get pushback on on some of this? What’s it been like for you?
Melanie Trecek-King (32:16):
I think the biggest pushback — and it’s good pushback, and I would agree entirely — is with inoculation activities, you do need to be careful to, when you debrief students, you wanna tell them why you did what you did and to use their powers for good and not for fooling other people. And I think importantly, for not putting misinformation out into the wild without having context around it. So if you do these kinds of inoculation activities, like if you have your students create pseudoscience ads, don’t just let them put them on social media. Obviously, you can’t control everything that they’re doing. But explain to them why you wouldn’t wanna do that. As far as everything else, I’ve heard really great feedback. You’re referencing my website. So, when I put together the course, I was trying to find resources for students to read. Textbooks are ridiculously expensive and I couldn’t find anything that I really wanted students to buy. So I just started writing, and I put it on my site. I have a site that’s basically the core of the curriculum. More in progress. And then I’ve got some of the topics that we explore and those are all assigned readings. My students are captive, in that I know they want a grade, and for four months they have to sit with me for the entire semester, in that I’ve specifically ordered the content in a way that would be most conducive to them learning these things. On the internet, though, and on social media, ’cause I post on there as well, people come in from all kinds of entry points, and so the goal would be to have them start at the beginning and go to the end. But people … I’m pleasantly surprised that there is an audience for critical thinking and science literacy content out there. And so that really warms my heart. But I am doing more and more for educators. And so I have a section for educators. I put content on there. I put assignments, the assignments that we’ve talked about and more, are on there. And the educators that I’ve had use it have just been really wonderful. Like, I hear great things. If I might, the biggest issue that I’m having is actually reaching educators. I’ve gone to — I met you at NSCA, actually, that was only last summer.
Eric Cross (34:30):
Oh, wow. Wow.
Melanie Trecek-King (34:32):
Right?
Eric Cross (34:32):
Yeah, you’re right. It wasn’t even a year.
Melanie Trecek-King (34:35):
Yeah, I think it was like July last year. So, um, you’ve been to the conferences. And I just went to the last one as well. But I have yet to figure out a way to really get in front of enough educators to share the content. So if anybody’s listening and is interested in learning more, please let me know! <Laugh>
Eric Cross (34:52):
Yes. And we talked about your website, but I didn’t say what the website was. So it’s ThinkingIsPower.com.
Melanie Trecek-King (34:57):
Yes.
Eric Cross (34:58):
And on there, there’s tons of resources. There is the toolkit. And it’s all free.
Melanie Trecek-King (35:06):
Yes.
Eric Cross (35:07):
And there’s a dope t-shirt on there that I just bought today, that Melanie’s actually wearing right now. It says, “Be curious, be skeptical, and be humble.” And I love that. Because I think one of the things that we can’t forget about teaching people how to think and critically evaluating information, sometimes those conversations can become very dehumanizing. And what I mean by that is it sometimes can become, like, intellectual sport, where we forget that there’s a human being on the other other side. And we lose that empathy and compassion. We can kind of see that. It just becomes this intellectual jousting and arguing. And one of the things I know about you, and when you talk about this or you talk about the work that you do, and even the shirt that you’re wearing, there’s this, “be humble.” There’s this human that is never lost in this. And you said it, too: When you’re teaching your students and you’re equipping them with all of these intellectual skills and all of these tools, to use it for good. So to maintain your humanity, to maintain your character, and then to use it to edify and lift people up, not to go out and do harm. That balance, I think, is so, so important. So it’s something that I really appreciate about you and how you teach.
Melanie Trecek-King (36:19):
I appreciate those kind words. Actually—
Eric Cross (36:21):
Oh, of course!
Melanie Trecek-King (36:22):
—and if I might, I sometimes see people using critical thinking like a weapon. It’s like, “I have learned fallacies and I’m just gonna use the tools of critical thinking to tell you why you’re stupid, or why you’re wrong, and why my position is right!” But real critical thinking involves applying those same standards to your own thought processes. And even something like argumentation: the goal of our argumentation is not to BE right; it’s to GET it right. And so we’re on the same team. If we’re arguing about something, if the idea is in scientific argumentation we’re trying to find the truth, which one of us is making a better argument based on the evidence? Can your perspective help me see my own blind spots and vice versa? And the more different perspectives that we have, the more able we are to find whatever reality is. But we are in this together. And so, yeah, I think … I’m glad to hear that that’s coming through. But if you don’t have the kind of humility that says, “You know, I could be wrong,” then you’re never gonna change your mind anyway. So having the humility to say, I’m wrong. <Laugh>
Eric Cross (37:33):
Yeah. You end up just seeing people just defend turf, as opposed to support “look for truth.” And I know for me, my own education journey, I end up with more questions than answers anyways. So I go in trying to find an answer for something and I end up with 10 more questions. And I go, “OK, this is kind of how it is.” You go down this rabbit hole and you just end up with all these different questions. And it forces the humility, because you’re like, “I don’t know! I think this is what it could be, but it could also be these other answers or explanations. So this is just where I’m at, based on what we know right now, at this present time, which might shift.”
Melanie Trecek-King (38:07):
And that sounds reasonable. Yes. Which might shift. Yes.
Eric Cross (38:11):
And especially for us as life-science biology teachers, our content is something that definitely shifts. I know some of the things I teach now are not things that I learned when I was even in middle school. Just because things evolve. They change. We learn, we get new data. That’s just the way it is.
Melanie Trecek-King (38:24):
<Sighs> And Pluto is no longer a planet.
Eric Cross (38:26):
I know. Rest in — well, no, Pluto’s still there. Yeah. It’s no longer a planet. But that was one part of my kindergarten memorizations <laugh> is Pluto being in there.
Melanie Trecek-King (38:36):
Gotta change your mind.
Eric Cross (38:38):
I know. Any words of advice for science educators out there who want to focus more on honing these critical thinking skills and strategies with their own students, but they don’t know where to start? Where would you point them? Or what advice would you give them?
Melanie Trecek-King (38:52):
I think start with what you want the students to know. And not necessarily the FACTS that you want students to know, but start with the skills that you want them to know. And then really be honest with your process. When I designed Science for Life, I started with, “these are the skills that I want students to know.” And everything was in service of that. So this sort of backwards design, I think, helped me follow a path that was more likely to be useful, if that makes any sense. But it really required doing it all over again. So don’t be afraid to question the things that you’re currently doing, even if that’s all you’ve been taught or all you know.
Eric Cross (39:41):
What I’m hearing is, don’t be afraid to question your own assumptions about what you’re doing. And don’t be afraid to adapt or change or modify. Kinda, pivot. Be flexible.
Melanie Trecek-King (39:51):
Yes, be flexible and pivot. And this is where I’m in a different position than middle school and high school educators. Because I have complete freedom over what I teach in my class.
Eric Cross (40:01):
Sure.
Melanie Trecek-King (40:01):
At the end of the semester, I always joke with non-majors that there’s nothing they have to know, which actually gives me a lot of flexibility, because I could teach ’em a lot of different things. So if there are things that you have to teach students, obviously that’s one thing. But I personally think that the way that we’ve been teaching science needs a refresher. A rethinking. And so I would say, “If you want your students to learn science literacy, honestly ask, what does that mean to you? And what would that look like to get to that point?” For me, though, it was also keeping in mind that maybe I didn’t already know the best way to do that.
Eric Cross (40:43):
One of the things you mentioned earlier is trying to reach out to educators. And I know that when we work together, it’s a force multiplier. And what you’re doing is developing skills. And there’s these skills that are happening right now in academia that you’re doing. And then how do we transfer that into middle and high school. Or, I’m sorry, middle and elementary school, high school. We need to get more people into this conversation to kind of brainstorm and figure that out. We have a Facebook group, Science Connections: The Community, where we have educators that gather. That can be one place we start the conversation. And again, I know on your website you’ve been super active on social media; you’ve grown your presence on Twitter and all these different places, engaging with folks. Which is awesome. ‘Cause I know I see your posts and I’m saving the things that you’re posting and I’m thinking of ways that I can do it in my classroom. I’m gonna take that product. By the way, is that on your website, the lesson that you do with the product?
Melanie Trecek-King (41:43):
No, actually. So the article, “How to Sell Pseudoscience” is … I know Bertha Vasquez wrote up a version of it.
Eric Cross (41:50):
Maybe we can grab that. ‘Cause we might be able to put that into the show notes for folks, because she’s a middle school educator. If there’s already something that’s been done for teachers like us, we’re like, “Yeah, let me get that and let me remix it and make it my own!” if there’s already a exemplar out there.
Melanie Trecek-King (42:04):
Yeah, she’s done it. And so I will absolutely share that with you.
Eric Cross (42:08):
So, all season long, we’ve been talking about science as the underdog. We kind of framed it, you know, science oftentimes takes a back seat to math and English. It’s kinda the first thing to go. Or the first area where time can get cut. Because of what gets tested gets focused on, oftentimes. And then in addition to that, when you’re a multi-subject teacher, elementary science isn’t just one thing — it’s every field. You know, you’re a biologist, which is different than a geologist. And when you’re teaching every subject, that’s a lot. And you might not have had a science class for years. And the realities that we’re seeing over and over with different researchers and practitioners is that science could actually enhance literacy, and building those skills. And I think you really talked about it with the critical thinking skills. Those can transfer. Or the administrator that said, “This is one of the only courses I’ve seen where it transfers to other areas.” Could you share maybe with our listeners, just any advice for advocating for science in their own world?
Melanie Trecek-King (43:13):
Wow, I’m not sure I’m qualified to answer that question! One of the things that comes to mind though — because I was listening to your last episode and educators … I honestly didn’t realize how little time they had for science. And how often science was then the first to go, to allow room for other subjects. But science overlaps with a lot of other issues. And so I feel like there could be a way to bring in science when teaching these other subjects. So, for example, argumentation and logical fallacies are easy to apply to reading and writing. Information literacy, and being able to find good information online, teaching students how to laterally read, to be able to check a source, or how to use Google effectively, to put in neutral search terms to find sources, or teaching students how to recognize the characteristics of conspiratorial thinking: All of these things can overlap with so many other subjects. So the scientist in me is a little biased towards science being important enough to do this. But try to bring it into the other subjects. It doesn’t have to be completely separate.
Eric Cross (44:43):
So integrating science into other things. And I … big believer. And a hundred percent agree with you. Now I’m gonna ask a question that kinda like takes us backwards. You shared an app with me when we first met that I thought was really cool. And I know it’s a friend or colleague of yours. But as a middle school teacher, I thought it was great, because it was something that my students could download and practice some of the skills that you’re talking about. Would you talk a little bit about the cranky uncle? Is it the Cranky Uncle app?
Melanie Trecek-King (45:17):
Cranky Uncle.
Eric Cross (45:18):
Could you share a little bit about that?
Melanie Trecek-King (45:20):
Yeah. Cranky Uncle is awesome. So, Cranky Uncle is the brainchild of John Cook, who is the founder of Skeptical Science and the author of the 97% Consensus study on climate change. Cranky Uncle … so he’s also a cartoonist. And Cranky Uncle is a cartoon game where … I don’t even have to explain who Cranky Uncle is to my students. Everybody inherently gets the, the character, right? So he’s like the guy at Thanksgiving that you don’t wanna talk to because he denies climate change and he’s just really cranky. But Cranky Uncle uses the techniques of science denial, which are summarized by the acronym FLICC: So it’s Fake experts, Logical fallacies, Impossible expectations, Cherry-picking, and Conspiratorial thinking. So he uses those techniques. Again, this is technique-based inoculation. So they recognize the techniques in the game, and you earn cranky points. And as you make Cranky crankier and crankier because you’re recognizing his techniques, you learn the techniques of science denial, and level up and open up other techniques. This is another one of those examples where climate change has a lot of science behind it, right? And if you wanted to get to the science behind climate change for any particular issue … so let’s say it’s cold today, so I’m gonna say there’s no climate change. OK? If I’m gonna unpack that at a factual level, and with science, we could be here for a while. But if I told you, “That’s like saying, ‘I just ate a sandwich so there’s no global hunger.’” OK? So that’s a parallel argument. Humorous. Love to use this kind of argumentation, ’cause it makes for some … I mean, it’s funny, but you get the point. It’s an anecdote. And anecdotes aren’t good evidence. So just like that, you could teach the technique of using an anecdotal fallacy for climate-change denial. So, I have my students play this game. You could do it when you’re studying argumentation. You could do it for science denial. I use an inoculation extension with that, where I have my students pretend that … um, actually, back up for a second. So I teach a class on critical thinking. And at the end of semesters I would get emails from students on, well, they’re failing the class, but they really shouldn’t, for all of these reasons. And reading these emails, I’m like, “If you think that’s a good argument, you clearly didn’t learn what I was hoping you would learn.” So I now have my students, early in the semester, after they play Cranky, pretend that it is the end of the semester and you’re failing the class and you’re failing because you didn’t do the work. Use at least four of the fallacies from class to argue for why you should pass. So they have to put it on a discussion forum, and they’ll say things like, “Well, if you fail me, then I won’t get into graduate school and then people will die and it will all be your fault.” Or, “My dog died, and so I was really sad.” Or, um, “You’re just a terrible teacher. And you’re short. So I don’t like you.” Or that kind of thing. So, oh, they love to attack my character. It’s really funny. But it’s supposed to be funny. And the point is, the students are using those arguments, they’re using the fallacies, to argue for something. And so by creating that misinformation themselves, they learn how those fallacies work. But taken together, I mean, everything that we just talked about there, Cranky Uncle, and the fallacy assignment, or whatever iteration you want that to be in, that doesn’t have to be in a purely science unit. Right? That could be sociology. It could be argumentation. It could be English.
Eric Cross (49:01):
Absolutely. That could be totally a prompt in an English class. And practiced in there. And then this could be an interdisciplinary thing, going back and forth between English and and science. Just having these discussions and looking at it from different angles. And you’re practicing the skills in two different contexts. So you get into argumentation. And then that app, I know I had fun with it. And the questions on there definitely resonate with people in my own family. I’m like, “I feel like I’m talking to exactly somebody that I’m related to right now.” <Laugh> Melanie, anything else that you wanna share, or discuss or highlight, before we wrap up?
Melanie Trecek-King (49:39):
So we could talk about lateral reading, if you like. ‘Cause I know a lot of educators use the crap test.
Eric Cross (49:45):
Please, please, please talk about that.
Melanie Trecek-King (49:47):
So, when evaluating sources, a lot of educators teach what’s called the CRAP test. And I wish I remembered what it stood for. But basically what you do, a lot of us have been taught when you go to a website, to figure out if it’s reliable, you wanna go to the about page. Read the mission; see who they are; maybe read some of the content; evaluate the language. So is it inflammatory? Are they making logical arguments? Are the links to reputable sources as well? And the problem is that if a site wants to mislead you, they’re not going to tell you that it’s a bunk site, right? They’re just gonna do a good job of misleading you. And so, what you wanna do instead … the CRAP test basically is an evaluation of a site. And that’s what’s called vertical reading. So you’re looking through a site to determine if it’s reliable. Uh, I think his name’s Sam Wineberg at Stanford, proposed something called lateral reading. Where, instead of on the site, what you wanna do is literally open a new tab and into the search engine type the source. You could do the claim, too. And then something like Reliability or FactCheck or whatever it’s that you’re checking, and then see what other reputable sites have to say about it. So, in their study, actually, they did a really interesting study where they compared professional fact checkers to PhD historians to Stanford undergrads. And they evaluated — I wish you could … um, there’s two pediatrician organizations. One’s like the American Association of Pediatrics and the American Academy of Pediatricians, something like that. They’re very similar sounding. So you give them to students. I do this with my students as well, the same study. So I give my students those two websites. And I say, “Which one of these is more reliable?” And they do exactly what most of us do, which is spend time on the site looking around. And most of the time, if not nearly all the time, they come to the wrong conclusion. And so then I tell them what lateral reading is: “OK, instead of looking through the site, open a new tab, search the organization and reliability.” Something like that. And it takes probably 30 seconds before they realize one of them has been dubbed by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a hate group. As opposed to the other one, which is like a hundred year old huge pediatrician organization that produces their own journals and so on. But nearly all my students are fooled. And in the study, none of the fact checkers were fooled. I’m gonna get the number right. It’s something like 50% of the historians and 20% of the Stanford undergraduates got the correct answer. And they spent a lot more time on it. So it’s a great way to teach students how to use the power of the internet to evaluate sources much more quickly and, effectively. And yes, use Wikipedia, right? Wikipedia is not a final answer, but Wikipedia is actually pretty accurate. So if Wikipedia is the first place you stop, then yes, go there, see what Wikipedia says, and then follow some of their sources.
Eric Cross (52:47):
What popped in my head was like, Yelp reviews for websites. That almost sounds like what it was. It’s like when I search for a product, I don’t go and read the product description marketing. ‘Cause that’s all designed to sell me on something. But I’ll go and look in Reliability, if it’s like a car, or just other sites to cross-reference. And that sounds like what you were talking about is like cross-referencing. Seeing what FactChecker [sic] said about this site, versus seeing what a site says about itself.
Melanie Trecek-King (53:14):
Well, that’s a great analogy. Because if I wanted to know if a product was effective, what the manufacturer says about the product, clearly there’s a strong chance of bias. Right? They’re going to be on their best, um, put their best foot forward. Versus, what do independent reviewers say about this product?
Eric Cross (53:35):
Yep. And I am known to research something to death. And I get something called “paralysis by analysis.”
Melanie Trecek-King (53:42):
Ohhhh, yeah.
Eric Cross (53:44):
And it’s so bad that even if I’m trying to buy, like, towels, I need to find the best-bang-for-the-buck towel. I have to defer some of these decisions out, because I’m on the internet for three hours now. I’ll be a pseudo-expert in towels, and thread count, and all of that stuff. But yeah, that maybe that’s just the science person.
Melanie Trecek-King (54:03):
I mean, I feel your pain. I do the same thing. <Laugh> It’s annoying. Like, it’s just towels. What does it really matter? But yeah.
Eric Cross (54:10):
Coffee! It doesn’t matter what it is. I just need to go, “OK, I have to use these powers for good. Otherwise I’m gonna be researching forever.”
Melanie Trecek-King (54:16):
I wanna say one other thing. So, again, this is a college class and I have a lot of freedom. But one of the driving philosophies behind the class is a wonderful quote in a book, Schick and Vaughn, How to Think about Weird Things. And they said, “The quality of your life is determined by the quality of your decisions, and the quality of your decisions is determined by the quality of your thinking.” And I know my students want a grade. But I’m really trying to teach them how to be empowered through better thinking. That’s where the name “Thinking is Power” came from. I mean, we say “Knowledge is Power,” but it’s not enough to know things. And there’s too much to know. So being able to think and be empowered to have your own agency and not fall for someone’s bunk is my goal for my students.
Eric Cross (55:07):
And doing that is gonna help them through the rest of their lives. Not be swindled, not be taken advantage of, be able to make better decisions. There’s so many benefits to building that skill. And I know your students have definitely grown and benefited. I’m sure you’ve heard, long after you’ve taught them, heard back from them and how they’ve applied that course to their lives. Melanie, thank you so much for being here. For a few things. One, for providing and filling this space where there’s such a need. Again, the critical thinking resources, the tools that you used, are so, so important. If we ever lived in a time where they were critical, it was really what we experienced during the pandemic in the last few years. We watched people’s information literacy and science literacy play out in real time. And we literally saw life-and-death decisions being made based off those skills. That highlighted, I think how important this is. And then, taking the time to generate resources for educators like myself, that we can take and adapt and put into our classroom and start teaching our students. ‘Cause like you said, by the time they get to you, they’re, they’re so far downstream or so far in a system that, depending on the teachers that they’ve had and the education system they’ve been in, may or may not have even touched on these things. They might have learned a lot of facts, but they may not have built their muscle to be able to critically analyze and interpret the world around them. And you’ve just — even the last year, it hasn’t even been a year since we talked the first time — I’ve watched your resources continue to grow, and you share them. And so I, on behalf of those of us in K–12, thank you. And thank you for being here.
Melanie Trecek-King (56:49):
Oh, well, thank you so much for this opportunity. Thank you for everything that you do, reaching out to other educators and for giving me a platform to hopefully reach other educators.
Eric Cross (57:00):
Thanks so much for listening to my conversation with Melanie Trecek-King, Associate Professor of Biology at Massasoit Community College and creator of Thinking Is Power. Make sure you don’t miss any new episodes of Science Connections by subscribing to the show, wherever you get podcasts. And while you’re there, we’d really appreciate it if you can leave us a review. It’ll help more listeners to find the show. You can find more information on all of Amplify shows at our podcast hub, Amplify.com/Hub. Thanks again for listening.
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Meet the guest
Melanie Trecek-King is the creator of Thinking is Power, an online resource that provides critical thinking education to the general public. She is currently an associate professor of biology at Massasoit Community College, where she teaches a general-education science course designed to equip students with empowering critical thinking, information literacy, and science literacy skills. An active speaker and consultant, Trecek-King loves to share her “teach skills, not facts” approach with other science educators, and help schools and organizations meet their goals through better thinking. Trecek-King is also the education director for the Mental Immunity Project and CIRCE (Cognitive Immunology Research Collaborative), which aim to advance and apply the science of mental immunity to inoculate minds against misinformation.


About Science Connections
Welcome to Science Connections! Science is changing before our eyes, now more than ever. So…how do we help kids figure that out? We will bring on educators, scientists, and more to discuss the importance of high-quality science instruction. In this episode, hear from our host Eric Cross about his work engaging students as a K-8 science teacher.
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- Implementing practices based on the Science of Reading in every classroom every day.
- Providing aligned resources to parents, guardians and family members.
mCLASS is built on decades of research at the Center on Teaching and Learning at the University of Oregon, a national center for early childhood assessment and instruction. The measures are already in use in many districts in North Carolina. With the additional mCLASS suite including reporting, grouping, lessons and caregiver support, DPI’s early literacy goals for North Carolina students will be met.
North Carolina mCLASS DIBELS 8 requirements
DIBELS 8th Edition fulfills legislative requirements for K-3 students with sub test measures for:
- Phonemic awareness
- Phonics
- Fluency
- Vocabulary
- Comprehension
For the above reasons, the state will begin using DIBELS 8 data for EVAAS purposes effective 2021-22 from MOY-EOY for Kindergarten, BOY-EOY for all 1-2 teachers, and BOG-EOG for grade 3.
| DIBELS measures at each grade level | ||||
| Measure | Grade K | Grade 1 | Grade 2 | Grade 3 |
| Letter naming fluency | ||||
| Phonemic segmentation fluency | ||||
| Nonsense word fluency | ||||
| Word reading fluency | ||||
| Oral reading fluency | ||||
| Maze (basic comprehension) | ||||
| Required additional measures at each grade level below | ||||
| Oral language | ||||
| Vocabulary | ||||
Amplify assessment invalidation process
- Teacher requests approval for an invalidation from a school-level administrator and provides a valid reason for requesting the invalidation.
- School-level administrators reach out to the district Read to Achieve (RtA) contact to approve the invalidation.
- District RtA contact approves the request and notifies the school-level administrator who notifies the teacher.
- Teacher invalidates assessment.
Professional Learning
Stay tuned for new registration links!
Stay tuned for new registration links!
Preparing for EOY (Administrators and Enrollment)
North Carolina Online Course
All of our monthly webinars will be linked in the online course. You will access the North Carolina Online Course to view previous webinars.

- When you open your course you will see a navigation panel along the left hand side.
- At the top of this panel, you will see a small back arrow by the title mCLASS in North Carolina Initial Training.
- Click on that back arrow to be taken to the beginning of the course with the introduction.
- When you land on that Introduction page along the left panel, you will see the welcome to the course.
- Scroll down that left panel to the section titled Monthly Recorded Webinars, within that section you will see a link to the page where we are posting the webinars, click on the “this page” link.
mCLASS DIBELS 8th Edition online course
As part of the implementation of mCLASS with DIBELS 8th Edition for the 2023-24 school year, all North Carolina educators will have access to a self-paced online course as a support for a successful implementation and to serve as a resource throughout the school year.
Learn how to:
- Administer and score mCLASS with DIBELS 8th Edition Interpret student data Identify students’ instructional need Access skills-focused lessons.
- Plan differentiated instruction.
- Please contact your district for access information to the online course. Districts received the link for the course in the DPI memo. Please reach out to your DPI consultant for assistance.
Monthly Webinar recordings will be placed on the Online Course site upon the completion of each session.
In addition, PSUs may purchase additional remote or in-person training sessions. Amplify offers in-person training options pending:
- agreement to Amplify’s Covid safety guidelines, and
- confirmation of availability for the requested training date.
Contact us for more information on additional PD.
Reading Camp
Overview
The Excellent Public Schools Act of 2021 defines “Reading camp” as an additional educational program outside the instructional calendar that the local school administrative unit offers as a literacy intervention to:
- any third-grade student who does not demonstrate reading proficiency and
- any second-grade student who demonstrates difficulty with reading development. Local school administrative units may offer a reading camp as a literacy intervention to any first-grade student who demonstrates difficulty with reading development.
Resources
The resources below review the Summer Benchmark assessment, Reading Camp data, and explain enrollment for Reading Camp.
Please Note: Do not make any manual changes in the Amplify platform prior to June 1st, 2026. Any changes made before this date will be overwritten.
- Districts hosting Reading Camp at each individual school
- Districts merging schools for Reading Camp
- Charters
- Accessing Summer Benchmark Data
Additional support:
We will be hosting office hours each Wednesday from 2:00 pm-2:30 pm EDT starting May 20th, 2026 and continuing through July 15th, 2026. This is a time for you to chat directly with us so we can help answer any questions you may have regarding reading camp.
Click here to join the office hours.
Office hours will occur on the following dates:
- May 20th
- May 27th
- June 3rd
- June 10th
- June 17th
- June 24th
- July 1st
- July 8th
- July 15th
Please note that this is not a presentation, but a chance to ask questions and receive specific support.
Enrollment resources
Each night, DPI extracts rostering files from Infinite Campus and sends them to Amplify. Changes in the enrollment system are captured in mCLASS the next day. As a reminder, no manual changes can take place in mCLASS.
In order to be included in the staff file sent to mCLASS from Infinite Campus, staff members must have a Read to Achieve role assigned to them. It is also important to ensure staff members are active, have a district assignment (Navigation to verify district assignment: Search Staff > Census > Staff > District Assignments), and an email address associated with NCEdCloud; If a staff member receives a “user not found” message when attempting to log in to mCLASS via NCEdCloud, this means they do not have a staff record enrolled in mCLASS.
Additional troubleshooting documents around enrollment can be found here.
Infinite Campus Resources:
mCLASS reporting
mCLASS gives you instant results and clear next steps for each student. Quick and actionable reports provide detailed insight into students’ reading development across foundational literacy skills for teachers, specialists, administrators, and caregivers.
View the mCLASS Reporting Guide to learn more.
Charter Schools
More information coming soon!
Remote assessment
We at Amplify and the team at the University of Oregon are here to provide continued guidance and support around collecting and using DIBELS® 8th Edition data.
This guide offers recommendations for benchmark assessment with DIBELS as well as tips for interpreting benchmark data during our unpredictable school disruptions.
North Carolina remote assessment guidance
Service Hub
Amplify Service Hub Now Live:
The Service Hub is an online portal which allows district- and school-level administrators to create support tickets, check on ticket status, and view reports related to support cases. Educators who have an RtA Admin role have access to the Service Hub. You can access the Service Hub here. Log in with the SSO Login icon and search for North Carolina Public Schools. Your NCEdCloud credentials will enable you to access the Service Hub.
Learn about navigating, viewing insights, and more in the
Spanish in NC
mCLASS Lectura is available for all students enrolled in a Dual Language program. When mCLASS Lectura is used with D8 teachers have access to the dual language report. This report provides side-by-side data of the student’s performance in Spanish and English.
Then mCLASS suggests actual strategies and specific activities to promote cross-linguistic transfer for bilingual students.
If you have students that would benefit from this assessment but are not enrolled in a dual language program, individual licenses can be purchased. Please reach out to your CSM and Jennifer Eason, your Account Executive, for more information.
Science of Reading resources
To continue your own professional learning around the Science of Reading, subscribe and join with your colleagues.
Science of Reading: The Podcast delivers the latest insights from researchers and practitioners in early reading. Further your professional development with each episode by subscribing and downloading them now.
Science of Reading: The Community is built for those committed to fostering conversation around the Science of Reading and implementing best practices in the classroom (including the virtual classroom).
What does classroom instruction look like when it is based on Science of Reading practices? We’ve outlined a Science of Reading action plan to guide your evaluation in our new FREE ebook, Science of Reading: Making the shift.
Caregiver supports
The mCLASS Home Connect website houses literacy resources for parents and caregivers, including at-home lessons organized by skill to help students at home during remote learning. Our mCLASS parent/caregiver letters in English and Spanish ensure that families know how to best support their child.

Support
NCDPI has been provided with its own dedicated support line: +1 (888) 890-2505
The current national support line will remain available and include the North Carolina option on the phone tree throughout the fall.
FAQs
Interested in learning more?
Amplify and NC DPI are collaborating on this FAQ. Please continue to check back, as we are updating this based on questions we receive about mCLASS and the current NC implementation.
Additional Amplify products
Get in touch with us to learn more about bringing other high-quality Amplify programs to your school or district.
Amplify Science – Oklahoma
Amplify Science – Oklahoma
Inspiring the next generation of Oklahoma scientists, engineers, and curious citizens
Amplify Science is an engaging new core curriculum designed for three-dimensional, phenomena-based learning.

A powerful partnership
Amplify Science was developed by the science education experts at UC Berkeley’s Lawrence Hall of Science and the digital learning team at Amplify.
Our Instructional Model
The Amplify Science program is rooted in the proven, research-based pedagogy of Do, Talk, Read, Write, Visualize. Here’s how each element works:
DO
First-hand investigations are an important part of any science classroom, and Amplify Science has students getting hands-on in every unit, from building models of protein molecules to experimenting with electrical systems.
TALK
Student-to-student discourse and full class discussions are an integral part of the program. Students are provided with numerous opportunities to engage in meaningful oral scientific argumentation, all while fostering a collaborative classroom environment.
READ
Students read scientific articles, focusing their reading activities on searching for evidence related to their investigation, and importantly, on asking and recording questions as they read through fascinating texts on 21st-century topics.
WRITE
Following real-world practices, students write scientific arguments based on evidence they’ve collected, making clear their reasoning about how a given piece of evidence connects to one of several claims.
VISUALIZE
By manipulating digital simulations and using modeling tools to craft visualizations of their thinking— just as real scientists and engineers do—students take their learning far beyond the confines of what they can physically see in the classroom in an exciting and authentic way.
Resources to support your review
- What’s so phenomenal about phenomena? – ebook
- Phenomena in grades K–5
- Phenomena in grades 6–8
- Student Books in grades K–5
- Literacy-rich science instruction in grades K–5
- Active Reading in grades 6–8
- Engineering in Amplify Science
- Oklahoma standards correlation for grades K–8
- Program structure for grades K–5
- Program structure for grades 6–8
- Oklahoma recommended scope and sequence for grades 6–8
Remote and hybrid learning supports

Oklahoma remote and hybrid overview video
Amplify has launched a new remote learning solution called Amplify Science@Home. Intended to make extended remote learning and hybrid learning easier, Amplify Science@Home includes two useful options for continuing instruction: @Home Videos and @Home Units.
Amplify Science @Home Videos are recordings of real Amplify Science teachers teaching the lessons. For those teachers who are unable to meet synchronously with their students, the recorded lessons are a great way to keep their students on track and engaged with Amplify Science while at home. These videos will be produced for all K–5 units, and for the first four units of each 6–8 grade level. Their release will be rolling, beginning in August.
Amplify Science@Home Units are modified versions of Amplify Science units, strategically designed to highlight key activities from the program. The @Home Units take significantly less instructional time than the complete Amplify Science program and allow students to engage with science at home. @Home Units will be developed for all Amplify Science K–8 units. Each @Home unit includes:
- Teacher overviews explaining how to use the materials, including suggestions for enhancing the @Home Units if synchronous learning or in-class time with students is available.
- Overviews to send home to families.
Student materials are available in two formats:
- @Home Slides (PDF/PPT) + Student Sheets (PDF) for students with access to technology at home.
- Downloadable @Home Packets (PDF) for students without access to technology at home.
Download the Remote and hybrid learning guide.
What’s included
Flexible resources that work seamlessly together
Science articles
The middle school science articles serve as sources for evidence collection and were authored by science and literacy experts at the Lawrence Hall of Science.

Student Investigation Notebooks
Available for every unit, the Student Investigation Notebooks provide space for students to:
- Record data
- Reflect on ideas from texts and investigations
- Construct explanations and arguments
Available with full-color article compilations for middle school units.

Digital student experience
Students access the digital simulations and modeling tools, as well as lesson activities and assessments, through the digital student experience. Students can interact with the digital student experience as they:
- Conduct hands-on investigations
- Engage in active reading and writing activities
- Participate in discussions
- Record observations
- Craft end-of-unit scientific arguments

Teacher’s Guides
Available digitally and in print, the Teacher’s Guides contain all of the information teachers need to facilitate classroom instruction, including:
- Classroom Slides
- Detailed lesson plans
- Unit and chapter overview documentation
- Differentiation strategies
- Standards alignments
- In-context professional development

Hands-on materials kits
Hands-on learning is at the heart of Amplify Science. Each unit kit contains:
- Consumable and non-consumable hands-on materials
- Print classroom display materials
- Premium print materials for student use (sorting cards, maps, etc.)

Scope and sequence
GRADE |
UNIT |
| Kindergarten |
|
| Grade 1 |
|
| Grade 2 |
|
| Grade 3 |
|
| Grade 4 |
|
| Grade 5 |
|
Grade |
Units |
|
Grade 6 |
|
|
Grade 7 |
|
|
Grade 8 |
|
Oklahoma Academic Standards for Science coverage
Amplify Science was designed from the ground up to meet the Next Generation Science Standards (NGSS), and the Oklahoma Academic Standards for Science (OASS) are closely aligned to the NGSS at K-8. The guidance below is meant to provide support for integrating additional activities that support full coverage of the OASS. You can view the full K–8 OASS correlation here.
Organized by grade level, each section below will outline:
- additional activities that support 100% alignment to the Oklahoma Academic Standards for Science;
- the standard being addressed with the activities;
- the recommended placement of the activities within a specific Amplify Science unit; and
- PDFs of any accompanying materials that are necessary to implement the activities.
Standard: 1.ESS3.1: Communicate solutions that will reduce the impact of humans on the land, water, air, and/or other living things in the local environment.
Recommended placement: Animal and Plant Defenses unit, Chapter 1
Materials: The Student Book Investigating Monarchs from the unit Needs of Plants and Animals
Investigating Monarchs emphasizes the needs of monarch caterpillars and butterflies and shows what happens when these animals are not able to meet their needs. The book first introduces the life cycle of monarchs, explaining that monarch caterpillars must eat milkweed to survive and change into butterflies. Their summer habitat must have milkweed. The butterflies then migrate a long distance, from the United States to a forest in the mountains of Mexico, where they take shelter in the trees. Their winter habitat must have trees. Scientists discovered that the monarch population in Mexico was greatly reduced because people were cutting down the trees. The forest was then protected, but the monarch population did not recover as expected. Scientists in the United States found evidence that this was because fields with milkweed are being replaced by farms and buildings. This book could be read with the class either before or after Chapter 1 of the Animal and Plant Defenses unit, which focuses on what plants and animals need to do to survive. Students could be asked to reflect on what the monarchs need to survive (including food and shelter), and how human activities impacted the monarchs’ ability to meet those needs. After reading the book, students could brainstorm ideas for how to reduce the impact of humans on the local environment.
Standard: MS-PS4-2: Develop and use a model to describe that waves are reflected, absorbed, or transmitted through various materials.
Recommended placement: Metabolism unit, Lesson 3.3, addition to Activity 5
Materials: “What Eyes Can See” science article
As students investigate metabolism and the body systems, the article “What Eyes Can See” should be assigned to deepen their understanding of information processing and sense receptors and connect that understanding to the emerging idea of the interaction of waves with various materials. The article explores how the only thing we can really see is light. Light travels from a light source to the eye, passing through some materials and bouncing off others. Tiny organs inside the eye called rods and cones absorb energy from light, making vision possible. These interactions between light and materials determine our visible world.
Instructions:
Download the PDF “What Eyes Can See” above and remind students of the Active Reading Guidelines. Before students read the article, invite them to share prior experiences. For example, “Have you ever had an experience where something looked different in one kind of light than in another kind of light? Or where something seemed to appear or disappear when the light changed?”
Standard: MS-PS3-1: Construct and interpret graphical displays of data to describe the relationships of kinetic energy to the mass of an object and to the speed of an object.
Recommended placement: Harnessing Human Energy unit, Lesson 1.4, after Activity 4
Materials: Force and Motion Simulation; Activity instructions and copymasters
In this activity, students use the Force and Motion Simulation to investigate the relationship between kinetic energy, mass, and velocity.
Instructions
Download the PDF linked above for the Lesson Guide and copymasters needed for the activity. Note that this investigation is typically implemented during the Force and Motion unit. This means the Lesson Guide will contain some incongruous labeling (e.g., unit name), as well as instructions that are out of context and unnecessary for the purposes of addressing this standard at grade 7. We suggest skipping to step 4 of the Instructional Guide to avoid some of this. Your students will get additional exposure to this activity, and indeed the standard as a whole, when they get to the Force and Motion unit in grade 8.
Standards:
- MS-PS2-3: Ask questions about data to determine the factors that affect the strength of electric and magnetic forces.
- MS-PS2-5: Conduct an investigation and evaluate the experimental design to provide evidence that fields exist between objects exerting forces on each other even though the objects are not in contact.
Recommended placement: Force and Motion unit, after Lesson 1.5
Materials: Flextension PDF
This hands-on activity builds on and reinforces students’ understanding of forces that act at a distance, with a focus on electrostatic force. Students explore electrostatic forces, prompted by a set of challenges that they try to accomplish. Next, students generate scientific questions based on their observations. Electrostatic force is less predictable and consistent than magnetic force, and investigating it can be both challenging and intriguing. The purpose of this lesson is for students to gain firsthand experience with electrostatic force and to gain experience generating scientific questions based on observations. You might choose to include this Flextension if you would like your students to have more exposure to electrostatic force, and if you would like to challenge your students to explore and ask questions about a challenging type of force.
Instructions:
Download the PDF linked above for a detailed Lesson Guide and the copymasters associated with the activity. Note that this activity is typically implemented as an add-on Flextension during the Magnetic Fields unit. This means that you will see some information that is out of context (e.g., placement information, unit title), but the activity itself also works for the purposes of the Force and Motion unit. If you have any questions, please reach out to our support team via the chat icon in your account or help@amplify.com.
Explore the Digital Teacher’s Guide
When you’re ready to review, click the orange button below and use your provided login credentials to access the Amplify Science Digital Teacher’s Guide.
To help familiarize yourself with navigating the digital Teacher’s Guide, watch our navigational guide videos:
Grades K–5:
Grades 6–8:
Looking for help?
Powerful (and free!) pedagogical support
Amplify provides a unique kind of support you won’t find from other publishers. We have developed an educational support team of former teachers and administrators who provide pedagogical support for every Amplify curriculum, assessment, and intervention program. This service is completely free for all educators who are using our programs and includes:
- Guidance for developing lesson plans and intervention plans
- Information on where to locate standards and other planning materials
- Recommendations and tips for day-to-day teaching with Amplify programs
- Support with administering and interpreting assessment data and more
To reach our pedagogical team, use our live chat within your program, call (800) 823-1969, or email edsupport@amplify.com
Timely technical and program support
Our technical and program support is included and available from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. ET, Monday through Friday, through a variety of channels, including a live chat program that enables teachers to get immediate help in the middle of the school day.
For your most urgent questions:
- Use our live chat within your program
- Call our toll-free number: (800) 823-1969
For less urgent questions:
Contact us
Contact your South Carolina team representatives:
Jeff Rutter
Field Manager
jrutter@amplify.com
(727) 512-8440
Cathy McMillan
Senior Account Executive
cmcmillan@amplify.com
(904) 465-9904
Inspiring the next generation of Oklahoma scientists, engineers, and curious citizens
Amplify Science is an engaging new core curriculum designed for three-dimensional, phenomena-based learning.

A powerful partnership
Amplify Science was developed by the science education experts at UC Berkeley’s Lawrence Hall of Science and the digital learning team at Amplify.
Instructional model
The Amplify Science program is rooted in the proven, research-based pedagogy of Do, Talk, Read, Write, Visualize. Here’s how each element works:
DO
First-hand investigations are an important part of any science classroom, and Amplify Science has students getting hands-on in every unit—from building models of protein molecules to experimenting with electrical systems.
TALK
Student-to-student discourse and full-class discussions are an integral part of the program. Students are provided with numerous opportunities to engage in meaningful oral scientific argumentation, all while fostering a collaborative classroom environment.
READ
Students read scientific articles, focusing their reading activities on searching for evidence related to their investigation and, importantly, on asking and recording questions as they read through fascinating texts on 21st-century topics.
WRITE
Following real-world practices, students write scientific arguments based on evidence they’ve collected, making clear their reasoning about how a given piece of evidence connects to one of several claims.
VISUALIZE
By manipulating digital simulations and using modeling tools to craft visualizations of their thinking— just as real scientists and engineers do—students take their learning far beyond the confines of what they can physically see in the classroom in an exciting and authentic way.
Oklahoma Instructional Samplers
Video: Oklahoma Spotlight on All Learners (SPED, G & T, EL, DEI)
Resources to support your review
- What’s so phenomenal about phenomena? – ebook
- Phenomena in grades K–5
- Phenomena in grades 6–8
- Student Books in grades K–5
- Literacy-rich science instruction in grades K–5
- Active Reading in grades 6–8
- Engineering in Amplify Science
- Oklahoma standards correlation for grades K–8
- Program structure for grades K–5
- Program structure for grades 6–8
- Oklahoma recommended scope and sequence for grades 6–8
Remote and hybrid learning support

Oklahoma Spotlight Video: Remote and Hybrid Learning
Amplify has launched a new remote learning solution called Amplify Science @Home. Intended to make extended remote learning and hybrid learning easier, Amplify Science@Home includes two useful options for continuing instruction: @Home Videos and @Home Units.
Amplify Science @Home Videos are recordings of real Amplify Science teachers teaching the lessons. For those teachers who are unable to meet synchronously with their students, the recorded lessons are a great way to keep their students on track and engaged with Amplify Science while at home. These videos will be produced for all K–5 units, and for the first four units of each 6–8 grade level. Their release will be rolling, beginning in August 2021.
Amplify Science@Home Units are modified versions of Amplify Science units, strategically designed to highlight key activities from the program. The @Home Units take significantly less instructional time than the complete Amplify Science program and allow students to engage with science at home. @Home Units will be developed for all Amplify Science K–8 units. Each @Home unit includes:
- Teacher overviews explaining how to use the materials, including suggestions for enhancing the @Home Units if synchronous learning or in-class time with students is available.
- Overviews to send home to families.
Student materials are available in two formats:
- @Home Slides (PDF/PPT) + Student Sheets (PDF) for students with access to technology at home.
- Downloadable @Home Packets (PDF) for students without access to technology at home.
Download the remote and hybrid learning guide.
What’s included
Flexible resources that work seamlessly together
Oklahoma Spotlight Video: Instructional Resources: More than a textbook!
Science articles
The middle school science articles serve as sources for evidence collection and were authored by science and literacy experts at the Lawrence Hall of Science.
Student Investigation Notebooks
Available for every unit, the Student Investigation Notebooks provide space for students to:
- record data.
- reflect on ideas from texts and investigations.
- construct explanations and arguments.
Available with full-color article compilations for middle school units.

Digital student experience
Students access the digital simulations and modeling tools, as well as lesson activities and assessments, through the digital student experience. Students can interact with the digital student experience as they:
- conduct hands-on investigations.
- engage in active reading and writing activities.
- participate in discussions.
- record observations.
- craft end-of-unit scientific arguments.
Oklahoma Spotlight Video: Spotlight on Simulations

Teacher’s Guides
Available digitally and in print, the Teacher’s Guides contain all of the information teachers need to facilitate classroom instruction, including:
- Classroom Slides.
- detailed lesson plans.
- unit and chapter overview documentation.
- differentiation strategies.
- standards alignments.
- in-context professional development.
Oklahoma Spotlight Video: Classroom Slides

Hands-on materials kits
Hands-on learning is at the heart of Amplify Science. Each unit kit contains:
- consumable and non-consumable hands-on materials.
- print classroom display materials.
- premium print materials for student use (sorting cards, maps, etc).

Scope and sequence
GRADE
UNITS
Kindergarten
- Needs of Plants and Animals
- Pushes and Pulls
- Sunlight and Water
Grade 1
- Animal and Plant Defenses
- Light and Sound
- Spinning Earth
Grade 2
- Plant and Animal Relationships
- Properties of Materials
- Changing Landforms
Grade 3
- Balancing Forces
- Inheritance and Traits
- Environments and Survival
- Weather and Climate
Grade 4
- Energy Conversions
- Vision and Light
- Earth’s Features
- Waves, Energy, and Information
Grade 5
- Patterns of Earth and Sky
- Modeling Matter
- The Earth System
- Ecosystem Restoration
GRADE
UNITS
Grade 6
- Launch: Microbiome
- Metabolism
- Plate Motion
- Plate Motion Engineering Internship
- Rock Transformations
- Ocean, Atmosphere, and Climate
- Weather Patterns
- Thermal Energy
- Phase Change
Grade 7
- Launch: Harnessing Human Energy
- Chemical Reactions
- Populations and Resources
- Matter Energy and Ecosystems
- Earth’s Changing Climate
- Earth’s Changing Climate Engineering Internship
- Magnetic Fields
Grade 8
- Launch: Geology on Mars
- Force and Motion
- Force and Motion Engineering Internship
- Light Waves
- Earth, Moon, and Sun
- Traits and Reproduction
- Natural Selection
- Evolutionary History
Oklahoma Academic Standards for Science coverage
Amplify Science was designed from the ground up to meet the Next Generation Science Standards (NGSS), and the Oklahoma Academic Standards for Science (OASS) are closely aligned to the NGSS at K–8. The guidance below is meant to provide support for integrating additional activities that support full coverage of the OASS. You can view the full K–8 OASS correlation here.
Organized by grade level, each section below will outline:
- additional activities that support 100% alignment to the Oklahoma Academic Standards for Science;
- the standard being addressed with the activities;
- the recommended placement of the activities within a specific Amplify Science unit; and
- PDFs of any accompanying materials that are necessary to implement the activities.
Standard: 1.ESS3.1: Communicate solutions that will reduce the impact of humans on the land, water, air, and/or other living things in the local environment.
Recommended placement: Animal and Plant Defenses unit, Chapter 1
Materials: The Student Book Investigating Monarchs from the unit Needs of Plants and Animals
Investigating Monarchs emphasizes the needs of monarch caterpillars and butterflies and shows what happens when these animals are not able to meet their needs. The book first introduces the life cycle of monarchs, explaining that monarch caterpillars must eat milkweed to survive and change into butterflies. Their summer habitat must have milkweed. The butterflies then migrate a long distance, from the United States to a forest in the mountains of Mexico, where they take shelter in the trees. Their winter habitat must have trees. Scientists discovered that the monarch population in Mexico was greatly reduced because people were cutting down the trees. The forest was then protected, but the monarch population did not recover as expected. Scientists in the United States found evidence that this was because fields with milkweed are being replaced by farms and buildings. This book could be read with the class either before or after Chapter 1 of the Animal and Plant Defenses unit, which focuses on what plants and animals need to do to survive. Students could be asked to reflect on what the monarchs need to survive (including food and shelter), and how human activities impacted the monarchs’ ability to meet those needs. After reading the book, students could brainstorm ideas for how to reduce the impact of humans on the local environment.
Standard: MS-PS4-2: Develop and use a model to describe that waves are reflected, absorbed, or transmitted through various materials.
Recommended placement: Metabolism unit, Lesson 3.3, addition to Activity 5
Materials: “What Eyes Can See” science article
As students investigate metabolism and the body systems, the article “What Eyes Can See” should be assigned to deepen their understanding of information processing and sense receptors and connect that understanding to the emerging idea of the interaction of waves with various materials. The article explores how the only thing we can really see is light. Light travels from a light source to the eye, passing through some materials and bouncing off others. Tiny organs inside the eye called rods and cones absorb energy from light, making vision possible. These interactions between light and materials determine our visible world.
Instructions:
Download the PDF “What Eyes Can See” above and remind students of the Active Reading guidelines. Before students read the article, invite them to share prior experiences. For example, “Have you ever had an experience where something looked different in one kind of light than in another kind of light? Or where something seemed to appear or disappear when the light changed?”
Standard: MS-PS3-1: Construct and interpret graphical displays of data to describe the relationships of kinetic energy to the mass of an object and to the speed of an object.
Recommended placement: Harnessing Human Energy unit, Lesson 1.4, after Activity 4
Materials: Force and Motion simulation; Activity instructions and copymasters
In this activity, students use the Force and Motion Simulation to investigate the relationship between kinetic energy, mass, and velocity.
Instructions
Download the PDF linked above for the Lesson Guide and copymasters needed for the activity. Note that this investigation is typically implemented during the Force and Motion unit. This means the Lesson Guide will contain some incongruous labeling (e.g., unit name), as well as instructions that are out of context and unnecessary for the purposes of addressing this standard at grade 7. We suggest skipping to step 4 of the Instructional Guide to avoid some of this. Your students will get additional exposure to this activity, and indeed the standard as a whole, when they get to the Force and Motion unit in grade 8.
Standards:
- MS-PS2-3: Ask questions about data to determine the factors that affect the strength of electric and magnetic forces.
- MS-PS2-5: Conduct an investigation and evaluate the experimental design to provide evidence that fields exist between objects exerting forces on each other even though the objects are not in contact.
Recommended placement: Force and Motion unit, after Lesson 1.5
Materials: Flextension PDF
This hands-on activity builds on and reinforces students’ understanding of forces that act at a distance, with a focus on electrostatic force. Students explore electrostatic forces, prompted by a set of challenges that they try to accomplish. Next, students generate scientific questions based on their observations. Electrostatic force is less predictable and consistent than magnetic force, and investigating it can be both challenging and intriguing. The purpose of this lesson is for students to gain firsthand experience with electrostatic force and to gain experience generating scientific questions based on observations. You might choose to include this Flextension if you would like your students to have more exposure to electrostatic force, and if you would like to challenge your students to explore and ask questions about a challenging type of force.
Instructions:
Download the PDF linked above for a detailed Lesson Guide and the copymasters associated with the activity. Note that this activity is typically implemented as an add-on Flextension during the Magnetic Fields unit. This means that you will see some information that is out of context (e.g., placement information, unit title), but the activity itself also works for the purposes of the Force and Motion unit. If you have any questions, please reach out to our support team via the chat icon in your account or help@amplify.com.
Explore the Digital Teacher’s Guide
When you’re ready to review, click the orange button below and use your provided login credentials to access the Amplify Science Digital Teacher’s Guide.
To help familiarize yourself with navigating the digital Teacher’s Guide, watch our navigational guide videos:
Grades K–5:
Grades 6–8:
Looking for help?
Powerful (and free!) pedagogical support
Amplify provides a unique kind of support you won’t find from other publishers. We’ve developed an educational support team of former teachers and administrators who provide pedagogical support for every Amplify curriculum, assessment, and intervention program. This service is completely free for all educators who are using our programs and includes:
- Guidance for developing lesson plans and intervention plans.
- Information on where to locate standards and other planning materials.
- Recommendations and tips for day-to-day teaching with Amplify programs.
- Support with administering and interpreting assessment data and more.
To reach our pedagogical team, use our live chat within your program, call (800) 823-1969, or email edsupport@amplify.com
Timely technical and program support
Our technical and program support is included and available from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. ET, Monday through Friday, through a variety of channels, including a live chat program that enables teachers to get immediate help in the middle of the school day.
For your most urgent questions:
- Use our live chat within your program.
- Call our toll-free number: (800) 823-1969.
For less urgent questions:
Contact us
Contact your Oklahoma representative:
Julie Godfrey
Account Executive
jgodfrey@amplify.com
(817) 360-0527
Amplify Science – West Virginia – state review
S5.E6. Why skepticism is essential to the Science of Reading, with Dr. Claude Goldenberg
Inspiring the next generation of Arkansas scientists, engineers, and curious citizens
Amplify Science is a proven effective core curriculum designed for three-dimensional, phenomena based learning that provides an immersive experience for students.
Amplify Science was developed by the science education experts at UC Berkeley’s Lawrence Hall of Science and the digital learning team at Amplify.

Grounded in Research
UC Berkeley’s Lawrence Hall of Science, the authors behind Amplify Science, developed the Do, Talk, Read, Write, Visualize approach, and gold standard research shows that it works. Our own efficacy research is pretty exciting, too.
Instructional model
The Amplify Science program is rooted in the proven, research-based pedagogy of Do, Talk, Read, Write, Visualize. Here’s how each element works:
DO
First-hand investigations are an important part of any science classroom, and Amplify Science has students getting hands-on in every unit, from building models of protein molecules to experimenting with electrical systems.
TALK
Student-to-student discourse and full class discussions are an integral part of the program. Students are provided with numerous opportunities to engage in meaningful oral scientific argumentation, all while fostering a collaborative classroom environment.
READ
Students read scientific articles, focusing their reading activities on searching for evidence related to their investigation and, importantly, on asking and recording questions as they read through fascinating texts on 21st-century topics.
WRITE
Following real-world practices, students write scientific arguments based on evidence they’ve collected, making clear their reasoning about how a given piece of evidence connects to one of several claims.
VISUALIZE
By manipulating digital simulations and using Modeling Tools to craft visualizations of their thinking—just as real scientists and engineers do—students take their learning far beyond the confines of what they can physically see in the classroom in an exciting and authentic way.
Explore the digital Teacher’s Guide
When you’re ready to review, click the orange button below and use your provided login credentials to access the Amplify Science Digital Teacher’s Guide.
If you need login credentials, contact your local Arkansas Account Executive, Marty Pitts, mpitts@amplify.com.
Instructional samplers
Resources to support your review
- What’s so phenomenal about phenomena? – ebook
- Phenomena in Grades K–5
- Phenomena in Grades 6–8
- Student Books in grades K–5
- Literacy-rich science instruction in grades K–5
- Active Reading in Grades 6–8
- Engineering in Amplify Science
- Program structure for grades K–5
- Program structure for grades 6–8
- Scope and Sequence for grades K–5
- Scope and Sequence for grades 6–8
What’s included
Flexible resources that work seamlessly together:
Science articles
The middle school science articles serve as sources for evidence collection and were authored by science and literacy experts at the Lawrence Hall of Science.
Student Investigation Notebooks
Available for every unit, the Student Investigation Notebooks provide space for students to:
- Record data.
- Reflect on ideas from texts and investigations.
- Construct explanations and arguments.
Available with full-color article compilations for middle school units.

Digital student experience
Students access the digital simulations and Modeling Tools, as well as lesson activities and assessments, through the digital student experience. Students can interact with the digital student experience as they:
- Conduct hands-on investigations.
- Engage in active reading and writing activities.
- Participate in discussions.
- Record observations.
- Craft end-of-unit scientific arguments.

Teacher’s Guides
Available digitally and in print, the Teacher’s Guides contain all of the information teachers need to facilitate classroom instruction, including:
- Classroom Slides.
- Detailed lesson plans.
- Unit and chapter overview documentation.
- Differentiation strategies.
- Standards alignments.
- In-context professional development.

Hands-on materials kits
Hands-on learning is at the heart of Amplify Science. Each unit kit contains:
- Consumable and non-consumable hands-on materials.
- Print classroom display materials.
- Premium print materials for student use (sorting cards, maps, etc.)

Scope and Sequence
Remote and hybrid learning support

Amplify provides a remote learning solution called Amplify Science @OnDemand. Intended to make extended remote learning and hybrid learning easier, Amplify Science @OnDemand includes two useful options for continuing instruction: @OnDemand Videos and @OnDemand Units. These videos also provide embedded professional development for teachers as well as opportunities for students to review a lesson, if needed.
Amplify Science @OnDemand Videos are recordings of real Amplify Science teachers teaching the lessons. For those teachers who are unable to meet synchronously with their students, the recorded lessons are a great way to keep their students on track and engaged with Amplify Science while at home. These videos will be produced for all K–5 units, and for the first four units of each 6–8 grade level. Their release will be rolling, beginning in August.
Amplify Science@OnDemand Units are modified versions of Amplify Science units, strategically designed to highlight key activities from the program. The @OnDemand Units take significantly less instructional time than the complete Amplify Science program and allow students to engage with science at home. @OnDemand Units will be developed for all Amplify Science K–8 units. Each @OnDemand unit includes:
- Teacher overviews explaining how to use the materials, including suggestions for enhancing the @OnDemand Units if synchronous learning or in-class time with students is available.
- Overviews to send home to families.
Student materials are available in two formats:
- @OnDemand Slides (PDF/PPT) + Student Sheets (PDF) for students with access to technology at home.
- Downloadable @OnDemand Packets (PDF) for students without access to technology at home.
Download the remote and hybrid learning guide.
Looking for help?
Powerful (and free!) pedagogical support
Amplify provides a unique kind of support you won’t find from other publishers. We have developed an educational support team of former teachers and administrators who provide pedagogical support for every Amplify curriculum, assessment, and intervention program. This service is completely free for all educators who are using our programs and includes:
- Guidance for developing lesson plans and intervention plans.
- Information on where to locate standards and other planning materials.
- Recommendations and tips for day-to-day teaching with Amplify programs.
- Support with administering and interpreting assessment data and more.
To reach our pedagogical team, use our live chat within your program, call (800) 823-1969, or email edsupport@amplify.com
Timely technical and program support
Our technical and program support is included and available from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. ET, Monday through Friday, through a variety of channels, including a live chat program that enables teachers to get immediate help in the middle of the school day.
For your most urgent questions:
- Use our live chat within your program.
- Call our toll-free number: (800) 823-1969.
For less urgent questions:
Contact your Arkansas representative:

Marty Pitts
Senior Account Executive
mpitts@amplify.com
(214) 945-5544

Mark Ramos
Inside Account Executive
mramos@amplify.com
(737) 308-4822
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